Calcium reactor help

Craigar

Tiger Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#1
i am in the process of getting a calcium reactor set up I have never set one up or ran one. I have a dual chamber Persision marine calcium reactor. I have a Milwaukee regulator with bible counter. I will run this off my apex.
Questions
What flow rate should be going through the reactor.
What feed pump should I use? Can I run it off my manifold?
What programming do you have set for the apex as a fail safe
What am I missing
 

halmus

Registered Users
M.A.S.C Club Member
ex-officio
#3
There are quite a few things ways to set this up and even more strong opinions out there believing their approach is the only correct approach. Such is the aquarium hobby. I’ll share what works for me but I’m not the strong opinionated type unless it comes to cheep beer.

Here are a few of my opinions:

1. Don’t try to run the feed for the CaRx off of a manifold. There are too many variables with a manifold and with a CaRx more than most other aquarium equipment, stability is key. Either get some sort of dedicated feed pump like a maxijet, magdrive, or other pump as the feed and install a needle valve on the output (effluent drip) from the second stage into your sump. Control the driprate out. Or, a reliable peristaltic pump to feed water through. I use a medical grade peristaltic I bought on eBay. More expensive but rock solid and my preferred method. I just set/monitor mL per min. The Apex DOS might be a good solution but I’m not sure if it’s rated for 100% duty cycle?

2. Setting the drip rate / feed rate: I don’t know any more scientific way to approach this than to create a chart with all of the appropriate measurements. Ca, Mg, Alk, pH, bubble rate, CO2 pressure, salinity, date, time of day, etc... When I first fired up my CaRx, I stopped any two-part dosing because that can screw up measurements of how much I was contributing via the reactor. I took measurements of everything I could think of and then started at an arbitrary low feed rate on my peristaltic pump. I waited a day monitoring tank pH and then measured everything again. It took me over a month before I got to everything dialed in. Now I can go months without checking ANYTHING. Ca, Alk, Mg, pH are all spot on. You just have to interpret the numbers until you get to a level where Ca and Alk are where they should be without external intervention. Adjust as needed over time due to increased reef uptake.

I keep my media reactor at a stable pH through a Milwaukee pH monitor/controller. It opens the CO2 solenoid when the pH gets to high allowing CO2 into the CaRx dropping the pH. The same can be done with the Apex by allowing it to control the solenoid. I’m not an Apex code geek. As much Apex gear as I have on my system, I’m not overly impressed with their pseudo-code BS. So, I can’t be much help with making the Apex code extra special. In general, if pH is too high in the chamber, open solenoid. If not, close solenoid. Set the hysteresis.

The key is to make sure the reactor is low enough in pH to dissolve media but not so low that it turns it to mush. I use Reborn media with good success at 6.5. Once you reach that point, you just need to dial in the feed rate which is trial and error in my experience. If the CO2, regulator, and solenoid are set up to maintain that level reliably, the only thing left to adjust is throughput. What’s the coral uptake and how does that change over time? I mainly watch Alk. I’m not using the Ca reactor quite as much for Ca. It pretty much always stays at 420. I am adjusting the feed rate to maintain Alk and in turn, pH.

Disclaimer: there are other people that advocate for doing away with the controller portion altogether. They have luck with a much more low tech solution I won’t begin to explain. I don’t doubt that it works for them. I just have a different approach. If you’d like to read up on that solution, I can provide a link. However, it’s predicated on a very reliable peristaltic pump to feed the system which will run many hundreds of dollars alone. I’m somewhere in the middle.

Hope this helps. I’m sure there are other successful approaches. This is what works for me.
 

zombie

Dolphin
M.A.S.C Club Member
#4
This is what I did when I used to run a calcium reactor.

1. Determine daily KH usage

2. Run the reactor until pH has settled at a rate of 40ml/min and 60 bubbles per second (takes a few hours)

3. Test DKH of the effluent.

4. Note pH measurement

5. Use the equation below to determine the required flow rate to make up for DKH loss.

Effluent flow = DKH loss * tank volume * 4000 / (1440 * DKH effluent)

6. Adjust flow per the above equation and adjust bubble count to the ratio of 65 bubbles per minute for every 40ml/min.

7. Start with the code below (example assumes your pH note in step 4 was 6.8)

Fallback OFF
If CapH > 6.85 Then ON
If CapH < 6.75 Then OFF
If CapH > 9.0 Then OFF
If Tank pH < 7.8 Then OFF
Min Time 010:00 Then OFF

8. Let it run for a few days and fine tune the output flow and bubble count as necessary. Then note the pattern for how long it generally stays ON and generally stays OFF.

9. Use the code below to alarm for flow issues and low tank pressure. This example assumes a general ON time of 20 minutes and a general OFF time of 30 minutes

CaRxFlowAlm
Set OFF
If Output SolenoidName = OFF Then ON
Defer 060:00 Then ON

FillCO2Tank
Set OFF
If Output SolenoidName = ON Then ON
Defer 040:00 Then ON

Email add
If Output CaRxFlowAlm = ON Then ON
If Output FillCO2Tank = ON Then ON


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Last edited by a moderator:

jda123

Dolphin
M.A.S.C Club Member
#5
If you want it to work, and work for a long time, do not use a pH controller at all. People like to champion this method, but the vast majority either do not use them anymore or are struggling with them. You have to learn how to tune it and how it actually works. It is not hard.

I have no idea what the pH is in my reactor and I don't care. It has run for 2 decades with only a brief attempt at "control" which ended up being a joke. I only care about output dKh and tank dKh and the rest is easy... like sniffing the exhaust on a muscle car and knowing if the timing needs changed, or the mixture where after a while, you just know.

If you want to use an Apex to alert you about a few things, then that is different, but don't use it to do anything other than monitor.

I wrote a ton on this thread. Note how the people after a few pages are now seeing consistency and everything that they expected from a CaRx.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/calcium-reactor-cant-keep-up-with-alk.484529/

If you are interested in this, then I can help you learn how to tune it. If you want to use the Apex then hit me up when you get fed up with it...

Whatever you do, get an extra co2 bottle and keep it on hand... your co2 will always run out on Friday right after the welding shops close. You can get a 20lb for $40-50 on craigslist so no need not to just have one laying around.
 

zombie

Dolphin
M.A.S.C Club Member
#6
If you want it to work, and work for a long time, do not use a pH controller at all. People like to champion this method, but the vast majority either do not use them anymore or are struggling with them. You have to learn how to tune it and how it actually works. It is not hard.
The point of using the apex is to provide a little push of extra stability and alerts, not set it and forget it. Reactors need to be tuned by hand first and then layers of security added on top with the apex.

I can guarantee you from spending the last 5 years basically running the Neptune forums that zero people who actually utilized the approach I showed above had any issues at all other than needing to calibrate every now and then (which that approach notifies you if you wait too long and the probe drifts).

I know a lot of people who have set up calcium reactors without any alerts or control who have walked home to a crashed tank because their regulator has issues, media a pile of mush because their feed pump failed or they had a power outage. The apex prevents all that if you do your due diligence.

The issue comes with those who use old school pH controllers or just wild guess pick a bubble count, set pH bounds and call it a day.

Sent from my SM-G965U using MASC mobile app
 
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jda123

Dolphin
M.A.S.C Club Member
#7
You have no idea what you are talking about. Even if a CaRx regulator went nuts, media melted or feed pump failed, a CaRx is not capable of crashing a tank. Was this meant to be hyperbole? It is just not possible. There are actual verified accounts of media turning to mush because a pH probe got out of calibration, but still not tank crashes. Even average regulators don't go nuts and good ones are reliable for decades. The worst verified account was somebody who dropped their bottle, damaged the valve and the room filled up with co2 as fast as they could get out. In any case, once the fanboydom stops, I help the people on the national boards to get their CaRx stable and running well - I will do the same here if desired... or I can just back off and disappear. It does not matter to me.

BTW - you are mixing your false-narratives, it is nearly impossible to melt the larger media that has been available the last bunch of years. The melting was with the smaller stuff that nearly nobody uses anymore since really Apex became popular. This is the difference in reefing in the real world vs on a forum. Also, a lot of those old school pH controllers had a probe that was about 10x more reliable than the "lab grade" one that Neptune offers... some of them are probably a step up.
 

Andrew_bram

Tiger Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#8
The point of using the apex is to provide a little push of extra stability and alerts, not set it and forget it. Reactors need to be tuned by hand first and then layers of security added on top with the apex.

I can guarantee you from spending the last 5 years basically running the Neptune forums that zero people who actually utilized the approach I showed above had any issues at all other than needing to calibrate every now and then (which that approach notifies you if you wait too long and the probe drifts).

I know a lot of people who have set up calcium reactors without any alerts or control who have walked home to a crashed tank because their regulator has issues, media a pile of mush because their feed pump failed or they had a power outage. The apex prevents all that if you do your due diligence.

The issue comes with those who use old school pH controllers or just wild guess pick a bubble count, set pH bounds and call it a day.

Sent from my SM-G965U using MASC mobile app
Completely disagree yes I have used a probe but not to control the reactor but more just to monitor my ph in reactor. Tuning the reactor has always provided best results. Basically I have used ph probe to tell me I am out of co2 once I got it dialed in.

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Dr.DiSilicate

Great White Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
ex-officio
#9
There is certainly more than one way to skin a cat and I personally prefer a method that employs both the use of my apex as a backup to my tuning the reactor much like Doug described. I do try to get it tuned so my apex “double checks” what I have done. I like to keep my reactor at 6.5 and tune my drip rate to change the DKH in my tank. I don’t use any code in my apex that someone else wrote in any situation. I do use some code in come situations but not for my reactor. I just don’t understand it enough and refuse to put faith in something someone else told me to do...

In any case, read a lot and understand why you are doing a certain method. I have found it very helpful to use my aquarium plants carbon doser for the co2 delivery with a really reliable master flex feed pump. You can also get a Kamoer for a reasonable price.

If interested in that method you can go to reef central and look up the thread called... something like “the official masterflex calcium reactor bla bla something. It’s long and has some great info on the first several posts!


Sent from my iPhone using MASC - Marine Aquarium Society of Colorado
 

jda123

Dolphin
M.A.S.C Club Member
#10
If you want to monitor the pH, then the only action worth taking is alerting you... and not shutting down the pH. Probes drift and fail more than there is an actual problem - you can see a low co2 tank coming from weeks away and don't really need a controller for this, but I guess that it could make people feel better and I get that. You should be checking the probe and figuring out if it is still OK before you let a robot make any decisions... more times that not, the probe is the problem, not the reactor unless it is just out of co2. This is why I just don't check my pH anymore... I would never trust the probe anyway and look at my tank every day, so I just quit buying them.

I just use a MaxiJet for a feed pump. They only last 4-5 years, but it works for me. I also have used a T off of a constant return line - variable will not work like with reduced flow at night, feed time or off of a manifold where the pressure could change even slightly. I used to use a Kangaroo (Masterflex of a few years ago), but the santoprene hoses tore and I have not replaced them. Peri pumps are really nice and can be helpful if they have precise control. You can also use a flow control pinch on the output line. With the larger media that has been out for a while, there is less chance of systems clogging up when using a ball valve or flow control pinch. If you get a peri pump, then it must be continuous duty - the part-time ones will burn up being run on a CaRx.

Few more things: Get coarse media (ARM medium or large or the Reborn - both are fine). Avoid man-made media (Aquamedic, and the like, since it lacks some traces and is REALLY hard to melt and takes a lot more co2). Make sure that you use a check valve on your co2 line or else the first time that you lose power, the salt water can creep back into your nice regulator and start to rust it all up on the inside - if you are using a solenoid, then you need a check valve. If you have your reactor tuned well, then you will not need the second chamber since there will be no excess co2, but it does not hurt anything. A well tuned reactor should also not move your tank pH much - if it does, then you probably have too much undissolved co2 entering the tank from the reactor (waste).
 
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