Syn's 850g.t.v Deep Brain system
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Curious too. Thinking of doing a close loop on this system but I haven't seen many people try it on a large tank like this. Is that because you need a huge pump, or anyone that has done something like that on a large system? If so what kind of pump and setup do you have for it? Anyone used the ocean motion on a closed loop too?
Really like the idea of putting most of my flow in a closed loop, maybe 4-6 ports with a heavy return pump on a sea swirl, then just supplement some of the flow with 1-2 mp40s, thoughts?
Really like the idea of putting most of my flow in a closed loop, maybe 4-6 ports with a heavy return pump on a sea swirl, then just supplement some of the flow with 1-2 mp40s, thoughts?
Saw this site with the ocean motion in use.
http://www.pansy-paws.com/aquarium/closed.htm
http://www.pansy-paws.com/aquarium/closed.htm
OK. Before and during my build this is one of the largest issues that I contemplated. I knew that I wanted to go with sps and that I needed a lot of flow. I also new that I could only get so much flow through my pre-existing loclines. I had an oceans motion squirt with 3/4" outlets ( http://oceansmotions.com/index.html) and decided not to go with them because of the nightmare in the plumbing. I have a closed loop system on my 240dd dt now with one Reeflo dart pump hanging vertically inside of my stand instead of sitting horizontally on the floor. This allotted me the same flow but nice and quiet while saving me some much needed floor space. The plumbing for the oceans motion is a nightmare and will cost you another plug on your apex but will really only cost you 2 more ball valves and 2 more unions (or just two more Union ball valves from brs).
I love the idea of a closed loop for this big of a tank and highly recommend it. The majority of the 400+ tanks run a closed loop because an external return pump will be more cost efficient in the long run when your mp40 type pumps have to be replaced. An ocean motions will allow you to rid yourself of a pump within the tank and less maintenance as they only need to be checked and serviced/cleaned semi-annually.
I would recommend two closed loop systems on this monster of a tank (right and left). This would make plumbing ten times easier and allow you two return pumps in case one breaks down. You could have one Reeflo dart gold as a return and two gold darts running your closed loop. This would crush the recommended 10x the amount of water flow per gallon and would limit the amount of power heads in the tank. Granted, the initial cost would be a little higher but you said you want a tank to last 15 years. This money is probably with it.
Ocean motions are not mandatory by any means and you could probably get away with one pump as your closed loop but with the length of the pipes and all the 45 degree bends you won't get the flow that you really want. This means that you could probably do a Reeflo hammerhead gold as your closed loop pump if you so desire. Either way I would recommend two inlets (this decreases the amount of suction in your tank and you stated that you want smaller fish,) and 4 outlets that are 3/8"-3/4" locline . They make a slim profile cover for your inlets that are not noticed when hidden by your rock work and are also a silly removable for cleaning.
Sorry for the book. Hope this helps.
I love the idea of a closed loop for this big of a tank and highly recommend it. The majority of the 400+ tanks run a closed loop because an external return pump will be more cost efficient in the long run when your mp40 type pumps have to be replaced. An ocean motions will allow you to rid yourself of a pump within the tank and less maintenance as they only need to be checked and serviced/cleaned semi-annually.
I would recommend two closed loop systems on this monster of a tank (right and left). This would make plumbing ten times easier and allow you two return pumps in case one breaks down. You could have one Reeflo dart gold as a return and two gold darts running your closed loop. This would crush the recommended 10x the amount of water flow per gallon and would limit the amount of power heads in the tank. Granted, the initial cost would be a little higher but you said you want a tank to last 15 years. This money is probably with it.
Ocean motions are not mandatory by any means and you could probably get away with one pump as your closed loop but with the length of the pipes and all the 45 degree bends you won't get the flow that you really want. This means that you could probably do a Reeflo hammerhead gold as your closed loop pump if you so desire. Either way I would recommend two inlets (this decreases the amount of suction in your tank and you stated that you want smaller fish,) and 4 outlets that are 3/8"-3/4" locline . They make a slim profile cover for your inlets that are not noticed when hidden by your rock work and are also a silly removable for cleaning.
Sorry for the book. Hope this helps.
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http://www.thescmas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15877 page 25 is where I hooked up the apex, eb8's, dosing pumps, tools etc on the peg board so you could visualize it. Looks clean but is very practical for how much crap we use to work on our tanks on a daily basis
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Great input, thanks. I have skimmed through your awesome build before, but going to have to sit and read the whole thing. But you give me much to consider. Question though, I noticed you didnt want sand dwellers, how much of problem are they with this kind of system? I love the little sand dwelling critters so I would love to have a deep-ish sand bed but saw a few build threads of people complaining of sand getting in the closed loop, particularly the OM, and causing all sorts of problems. Any issues like that?
Big pumps, like an ampmaster or sequence won't draw as much wattage as advertised on a CL. Although nobody but big-tank guys used them anymore, look at eductors to increase the flow from a CL. If you decide to do this, buy a solid pump with saltwater seals (think lifetime) and spend a bit more up front for a better pump - most people don't do this and go cheap.
Sand critters like snail, cukes and conchs are cool. Sand eating fish will move it around like crazy and drive you nuts. If you put the intake of the CL up a bit, then sand will stay out of it. You should have a pretty nice screen on there, though. Snail shells will run pump impellers pretty quickly. I would never have a sandbed without conchs and cukes every again... but the system needs a year, or so, to get enough stuff in the sand to feed them.
Sand critters like snail, cukes and conchs are cool. Sand eating fish will move it around like crazy and drive you nuts. If you put the intake of the CL up a bit, then sand will stay out of it. You should have a pretty nice screen on there, though. Snail shells will run pump impellers pretty quickly. I would never have a sandbed without conchs and cukes every again... but the system needs a year, or so, to get enough stuff in the sand to feed them.
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OO nice, those dolphin pumps are pretty intense. I have seen a few builds with those but hadnt ever really looked at the specs or reviews on them. One of those type 4s might be more then enough flow wise, and the long term reliability is a big plus in this case. This is one of the pieces I intend to get right and make last for a long time, and I dont want to be spending money replacing pumps that will only last a year or so, would much rather do it right the first time and the forget about it. But then this is why I posted this now, to get feedback and make sure I do it right.
Haven't had conchs or cukes before, looked at them for my 75 before but didnt think I could keep them alive in there, will add them to my livestock list though as your right they likely would do great in a system like this once its well established, which honestly I'll be adding things very slowly until I reach that point anyways.
Haven't had conchs or cukes before, looked at them for my 75 before but didnt think I could keep them alive in there, will add them to my livestock list though as your right they likely would do great in a system like this once its well established, which honestly I'll be adding things very slowly until I reach that point anyways.
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Quick update! Been working on the re-tuck of the basement brick walls and nearly complete on that. Pics to come. After that I am going to seal the brick with some Seal Krete, and then work on some of the lighting and electrical for the basement room. From there it looks like this
- Build desk
- Setup refugium tank
- Rebuild water storage/change station
- Build tank and stand
- Setup
I have been working on acquiring various items required for the build like :
700lbs + dry and live rock, now have a 75g tank filled 100% full of old live rock as well as several tubs of dry rock that I will use for the sculptures.
I have built some pvc frames for some of the sculpture pieces and will use the dry rock and "natural" mortar to create the sculptures.
Also got a Calc reactor and some lights from Premier reef and reefchief
Got 2 barracuda pumps and a dart
Got a ocean motion for the closed loop.
Refugium
Battery backup
Things I am looking for now include:
Heaters (6+ 100w heaters)
Pumps ( for mixing and fuge tanks)
more Lights (LEDS and t5 or T12s)
Acrylic to build a frag and an equipment tank. Maybe even enough to build a 150g and 50g tank for the mixing station.
150g+ sump (rubbermaid stock tank preferably)
Sea swirls for my return lines and maybe a few closed loop lines
- Build desk
- Setup refugium tank
- Rebuild water storage/change station
- Build tank and stand
- Setup
I have been working on acquiring various items required for the build like :
700lbs + dry and live rock, now have a 75g tank filled 100% full of old live rock as well as several tubs of dry rock that I will use for the sculptures.
I have built some pvc frames for some of the sculpture pieces and will use the dry rock and "natural" mortar to create the sculptures.
Also got a Calc reactor and some lights from Premier reef and reefchief
Got 2 barracuda pumps and a dart
Got a ocean motion for the closed loop.
Refugium
Battery backup
Things I am looking for now include:
Heaters (6+ 100w heaters)
Pumps ( for mixing and fuge tanks)
more Lights (LEDS and t5 or T12s)
Acrylic to build a frag and an equipment tank. Maybe even enough to build a 150g and 50g tank for the mixing station.
150g+ sump (rubbermaid stock tank preferably)
Sea swirls for my return lines and maybe a few closed loop lines
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SynDen
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Been a bit busy working on my secret labaka the fishroom/office. Finally got the brick fully re-tucked in the room.
This took several months to grind out the old mortar and replace with new, but it was worth the effort. After that I sprayed the brick with some Eagle Natural seal and I have some Seal Krete clear acrylic sealer coming on tues to seal it completely.
While waiting for the Seak Krete to arrive I started on the desk. I have had most of the wood for the desk for some time now as its made from old store shelves from the Cost Plus store that was near here. When it closed and moved a few years back I picked up a bunch of the wood shelves they had for only a couple bucks.
I added a somewhat hidden support frame, a couple legs and cabinets from ikea. I had to glue the panels together to make the long length but once glued and sanded down they make a smooth and mostly seamless surface. Then a dark stain and top coat.
The cabinets were the expensive piece of this desk but all in all less then $300 spent on it total.
This took several months to grind out the old mortar and replace with new, but it was worth the effort. After that I sprayed the brick with some Eagle Natural seal and I have some Seal Krete clear acrylic sealer coming on tues to seal it completely.
While waiting for the Seak Krete to arrive I started on the desk. I have had most of the wood for the desk for some time now as its made from old store shelves from the Cost Plus store that was near here. When it closed and moved a few years back I picked up a bunch of the wood shelves they had for only a couple bucks.
I added a somewhat hidden support frame, a couple legs and cabinets from ikea. I had to glue the panels together to make the long length but once glued and sanded down they make a smooth and mostly seamless surface. Then a dark stain and top coat.
The cabinets were the expensive piece of this desk but all in all less then $300 spent on it total.
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SynDen
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SynDen
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Finished sealing the brick on the other side of the room. All in all I put 5gl of this penetrating sealant (http://www.eaglesealer.com/products/natural-seal) and 5gl of this clear coat (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Seal-Kre...l-Concrete-Protective-Sealer-604001/203494518)
Wasn't planning on putting so much on it but this old brick was super porous and absorbed everything like a sponge, but now its pretty well water tight now. On to re-building the water station and setting up the refuge and sump.
Wasn't planning on putting so much on it but this old brick was super porous and absorbed everything like a sponge, but now its pretty well water tight now. On to re-building the water station and setting up the refuge and sump.
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So I haven't been around much lately mainly because what little free time I have had recently has been spent on my 'secret lab'. But finally I can say phase 1 of the build is done!!!! :biggrin-new: The room is now as ready as I can make it for a giant fish tank 
Breakdown of the work done on the room since last update:
- The Brick is fully 100% sealed and restored. To do this I ground out about 1inch of the existing mortar around each brick, cleaned each, and replaced the mortar with new material. After that set that brick got cleaned again before adding Some Eagle Natural seal, followed by many coats of Seal Krete clear masonry sealant. The Eagle seal is a penetrating sealant that absorbs into the brick and helps prevent the brick from absorbing salts, liquids or other harmful liquids/solids. Combined with the clear coat each brick got about 8 coats total and are fully sealed inside and out. In the end it turned out pretty awesome looking, but not a project for the feint of heart as this one took us almost 8 months to complete.
- The ceiling has been painted and waterproofed, along with all the rest of the wood in the room. Originally I was trying to figure out what to do about the ceiling but didn't want to paint it due to the amount of back breaking work would be needed to do it. In the end though the wife made the decision for me and was going to paint the ceiling slowly in pieces over a long period of time. I was glad she was wanting to do this but I told her it needed to be done in a week. It took almost two weeks of shear determination, bent over backward, with my head stuck between the rafters. I had to clean up 100+ years of dust (dirt and coal), various nails, hook, rivets, wires, boards and even a few metal sheets, from the rafters. Amazing amount of stuff came out of the ceiling, and about 10g of behr waterproofing exterior paint was applied.
- The stairs finally have proper support and dont bounce when you walk down them anymore. Not sure who put these stairs in but they were never properly supported or anchored. When you walked down them they bounced and wobbled. After looking over the supports that were on it, it was apparent that likely 3 different owners had at sometime made their own half hearted attempt to correct the bouncy stairs but they all failed to address or identify the root of the problem. So I torn out all the supports and basically rebuilt the stairs this time with proper anchoring and bracing. This also allowed me to adjust the space where the sump will live.
- The ducts have been cleaned, repaired and reworked, in some cases. Most of the ducts in this room were put in long before you could walk in this room and in fact were just above the dirt that used to be in here. So I reconfigured the ducts, repaired the ones that needed it and added a heat register into the basement so that the room is now finally heated too.
- Finally I started putting in the sump and I built the stand for the 250g tank I am going to use as a storage tank. The storage tank will be sitting just over the edge of the sump so that I can plumb in a simple water change system with a minimum amount of work or plumbings.
Next step is to set up the fuge and sump. I will plumb them together and get all my rock cycling very soon as I ordered a bunch of sch80 pvc pipes and fitting as well as some acrylic polish. Once my rock sculptures are done (which I have also been working on but I will save that for a later post) I will be able to get it cycled and live long before the main tank goes in.
The wife jumped in and helped finish up the last bit of the brick re-tucking
Last of the re-tuck done! Stairs rebuilt! Leveled the floor a bit while I was at it.
Everything painted and some of it put in place
Breakdown of the work done on the room since last update:
- The Brick is fully 100% sealed and restored. To do this I ground out about 1inch of the existing mortar around each brick, cleaned each, and replaced the mortar with new material. After that set that brick got cleaned again before adding Some Eagle Natural seal, followed by many coats of Seal Krete clear masonry sealant. The Eagle seal is a penetrating sealant that absorbs into the brick and helps prevent the brick from absorbing salts, liquids or other harmful liquids/solids. Combined with the clear coat each brick got about 8 coats total and are fully sealed inside and out. In the end it turned out pretty awesome looking, but not a project for the feint of heart as this one took us almost 8 months to complete.
- The ceiling has been painted and waterproofed, along with all the rest of the wood in the room. Originally I was trying to figure out what to do about the ceiling but didn't want to paint it due to the amount of back breaking work would be needed to do it. In the end though the wife made the decision for me and was going to paint the ceiling slowly in pieces over a long period of time. I was glad she was wanting to do this but I told her it needed to be done in a week. It took almost two weeks of shear determination, bent over backward, with my head stuck between the rafters. I had to clean up 100+ years of dust (dirt and coal), various nails, hook, rivets, wires, boards and even a few metal sheets, from the rafters. Amazing amount of stuff came out of the ceiling, and about 10g of behr waterproofing exterior paint was applied.
- The stairs finally have proper support and dont bounce when you walk down them anymore. Not sure who put these stairs in but they were never properly supported or anchored. When you walked down them they bounced and wobbled. After looking over the supports that were on it, it was apparent that likely 3 different owners had at sometime made their own half hearted attempt to correct the bouncy stairs but they all failed to address or identify the root of the problem. So I torn out all the supports and basically rebuilt the stairs this time with proper anchoring and bracing. This also allowed me to adjust the space where the sump will live.
- The ducts have been cleaned, repaired and reworked, in some cases. Most of the ducts in this room were put in long before you could walk in this room and in fact were just above the dirt that used to be in here. So I reconfigured the ducts, repaired the ones that needed it and added a heat register into the basement so that the room is now finally heated too.
- Finally I started putting in the sump and I built the stand for the 250g tank I am going to use as a storage tank. The storage tank will be sitting just over the edge of the sump so that I can plumb in a simple water change system with a minimum amount of work or plumbings.
Next step is to set up the fuge and sump. I will plumb them together and get all my rock cycling very soon as I ordered a bunch of sch80 pvc pipes and fitting as well as some acrylic polish. Once my rock sculptures are done (which I have also been working on but I will save that for a later post) I will be able to get it cycled and live long before the main tank goes in.
The wife jumped in and helped finish up the last bit of the brick re-tucking
Last of the re-tuck done! Stairs rebuilt! Leveled the floor a bit while I was at it.
Everything painted and some of it put in place