ATO/Auto Water Change experience

SynDen

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#2
I've never used one of those, so couldn't speak to it persay, but it does use optical eyes which generally are pretty good. As long as you keep the eyes fairly clean I would think it would do pretty well.
If you have an apex you could just set some leak detection sensors around the fill area and program the apex to shut it off if a the leak detector is triggered.
 

zombie

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#3
That one looks like it has way to many failure points with zero redundancy. I would use a peristalic setup instead and use opticals, floats, conductivity, etc for redundancy (apex makes this much easier) so of something fails you can be notified and stop the change.

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ReefCheif

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#4
I would suggest not running an auto water change without an Apex.
 

jda123

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#5
There are two types of ATOs and AWCs, those that have failed and those that will. Be sure and buy & plan so that WHEN they fail where they cannot do damage... with an ATO is this can be easy and a few products get this right with triple redundancy (optics, floats and timers). With AWC, I have not really seen one commercially available, but seen some custom ones with leak sensors, lots of eyes and floats... there is a thread on r2r/RC (I forget which, sorry) about this and they guy spent like $1400 on what he considers a foolproof one and regretted is since the 5 minutes that he was spending on it would take like 500 water changes to pay him back at his hourly rate working... and he spent more than 5 minutes checking everything out regularly and mixing up salt still... it was basically more work now.

IMO, the safest way to go is to build a WC station where you just turn a few ball valves... this takes only a few minutes and it 100% safe. It is worth it to me to manually spend a few minutes to eliminate the risk.

The best one that I ever saw had a drain on the sump that went to waste. He had a peri pump just pump in 10g of water a day in the display and that forced 10g of water down the drain. Safe and easy as long as he kept fresh salt in the container. The only issue with this one is that you are replacing evap with salt water, but he figured out how to add in like 1.022 salt and then it all evened out most of the time with only quarterly adjustments.
 

zombie

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#6
With AWC, I have not really seen one commercially available, but seen some custom ones with leak sensors, lots of eyes and floats... there is a thread on r2r/RC (I forget which, sorry) about this and they guy spent like $1400 on what he considers a foolproof one and regretted is since the 5 minutes that he was spending on it would take like 500 water changes to pay him back at his hourly rate working... and he spent more than 5 minutes checking everything out regularly and mixing up salt still... it was basically more work now.
Mine is what I would consider full proof and all it cost me was $200 for a used DOS and the same opticals, floats, and conductivity probe I already use in my apex for other things like ATO. Mine does a continuous change, which doesn't effect water level, and will shut off if tank or reservoir conductivity is more than 1ppt off or if the water level is found to be low or high, or the reservoir is empty. I have had a head get clogged with a chunk of algae and it detected the issue and stopped it after about a quart of extra water is added.

Making this design without an apex is incredibly expensive, but considering you can buy an apex with all the floats/opticals you need and a DOS brand new with the latest controller for less than $1200 and it serves a whole slew of other purposes like ATO, lighting timers, flow control, alerts, etc I don't know what that guy was thinking. I spend 5 minutes a week with this and that's just mixing up new salt when the apex tells me the reservoir is empty.

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jda123

Dolphin
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#7
What the guy was thinking is that he honestly and accurately included everything that he needed to get this done, including the stuff that you already sunk money into, so that he did not mislead people with the costs. I am glad that you got a smoking deal on a DOS, few probes and sensors, but just the DOS is $299 new and that is what most people would have to pay along with all of the probes, floats, sensors, eyes, etc... nobody can replicate this for $200.

Here is a more reasonable guesstimation of what stuff will cost if you have none of it:
DOS $299 - there are probably better, but lets go with this
Apex $500-800 depending on which one you want
Salinity Probes $250 ($125 x 2)
Salinity Probe Modules $90 or $180 - no idea if you need one for each probe, or not
Apex Optical Sensors $50 ($25 x 2)
Apex Floats $50 ($25 x 2)
Apex Leak Detection Probe $30 each for however many you want

If I had a gravity drain nearby, I could probably do this mechanically with a bulkhead and some PVC, a reservoir for fresh salt, reliable small pump and a light timer - so like $100. The gravity fed drain is the big issue for most people.
 

zombie

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#8
This is what I paid
DOS $200 used
Apex: Free because I contribute to Neptune Forums. Comes with cond probe and port.
Floats $60 new ($20 x 3)
Break out box: $10 used

Optional not required
PM2 & cond probe $100 used
Floats for NSW reservoir $20 new


This is what buying new would be
DOS $299 new
Apex $800 new but saves you several hundred elsewhere (ATO, timers, heater controller, power strips, calcium reactor controller, etc) so realistically $500 or less economic cost.
Floats $60 new ($20 x 3)
Break out box: $30 new

Optional not required
PM2 & cond probe $250 new
Floats for NSW reservoir $20 new

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DyM

Sting ray
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#9
I do AWC with the Litermeter III and absolutely love it. I have a full Apex, and the DOS that I use for dosing as well but hands down, I'd rather use the Litermeter. Personally I'm not a fan of the DOS, but I have it now, and it does dispense the two part for dosing. I had to calibrate the DOS once already, and need to check it again soon to see if it stays accurate. I tested the litermeter for accuracy at the same time as the DOS and it was spot on. For redundancy I use float switches for the salt water making tank as the optical switches get clouded up all the time. For ATO, I use the Apex ATK kit, it works.
 
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