Quarantine tank disaster

[fonduecat]

I'm new to the hobby and made my first big mistake. I didn't set up a quarantine for my new fish and got a yellow tang that soon was covered in ich. I did some research and decided on setting up a quarantine/hospital tank and treating him with hyposalinity. This is what I got for the tank-

27 gallon cube tank
Biowheel power filter
700 gph powerhead
Heater
Thermometer
LED light (not sure of the specs, came with the tank)
1 big piece of PVC

I started by soaking the biowheel in the water of the main tank overnight, then filling half of the hospital tank with water from the display tank, then the other half with new water. I made sure the measurements from both tanks matched exactly. Salinity was 1.023, temp of 78, pH at 8.1 and ammonia/Nitrites/nitrates at 0.

The second I put the tang in he started to float sideways. It took him a minute before he just sat at the bottom. By the time I had put him in, the ich made it hard for him to use his left fin and he was breathing very fast. Hours later in the quarantine tank he started to float, the next morning he was belly up. I thought it was just too late and maybe the ich was bad enough that there was nothing to do to save him. Fast forward 2 weeks. I have the tank still set up (same water, probably a bad thing). The parameters are still the same as the main tank. I got a tri-color wrasse, drip acclimated her to the quarantine tank for over an hour, then once I put her in, she sank to the bottom and started to act like the tang. Just void of life. Scared she would die shortly we just put her in the main tank hoping that since they had the same biology she would be okay. Instant life. She swam around, said hello to the clownfish and made her home in a rock. She ate, explored and was a happy fish.

I'm thinking I did something wrong with the hospital tank and it's contaminated or something. Any ideas? At this point I think I need to drain it and start over. Any advice on what to do this round? I think I need to get it back up and running soon because I'm worried the smaller of my clownfish has spots and may have gotten ich. I'm not sure what I need to clean everything with or how to go about making sure I don't lose another fish to a bad setup. Thanks!

 

[Blindrage]

I am no expert, but it sounds like an oxygen issue in the QT tank. That is about the only thing that would explain why a fish would almost immediately start looking very sick, and then perk right up in the main tank. I just do not understand why you oxygen levels, or anything else for that matter, would be so destructive on this setup.

Maybe something leeching from the tanks old use? Is this tank new, used, what was it used for before this?

Also, putting the filter in your main tank overnight is not near enough. Get a brand new filter, put it in your sump for a few weeks so that it gets filled with the needed bacteria, then move it to your QT tank when you need it. Never put it back in your main tank if you used any meds, or had any kind of outbreak.

 

[fonduecat]

The tank is brand new, so are all the accessories. But oxygen is not something I thought of. I had the tank very full since the filter was loud, so there is a chance the water wasn't breaking the surface enough for oxygen levels to be right.

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[Craigar]

Stray voltage in the tank?

 

[jda123]

Did you measure the ammonia a few days later? It could have quickly spiked up after the tang died in it. Nitrate too.

Change water out of your display into the QT tank. You know that water is safe and has bacteria in it.

I would recommend copper of hypo. Lots of fish won't stand hypo and some can get brain damage if they live. Besides, unless you are going to fallow your display, then the ich will always be in there, so the QT is really just a good disease-free start to make sure that the fish are eating and doing well before being put in with the others. I typically QT all fish that will fit into my QT tank, only put in copper if I need it and just make sure that they are fat and happy before going into gen pop. I don't QT my corals in fallow systems for 60 days, so ich could get into my tank on any frag at any time. I have no illusions that my tank will be ich free, but I do have fish that are not affected by ich.

 

[deboy69]

I I would either say ammonia first then oxygen. Soaking the bio wheel over night will not cycle the tank suitable for a fish. You would have to do a lot of water changes for that to happen. Secondly if you put a fish in for qt I wouldn't put another fish in it until I first sanitized everything and recycled the tanks. Too much of a risk of reinfecting a new clean fish Just my two cents.

Edit
You would need to do a lot of water changes to keep the ammonia down until the bacteria is established for it to cycle.

KCCO

 

[greennate]

from what i understand ich is a bacteria present in every tank, it is always there. Unhealthy stressed or damaged fish get affected by it, I keep a cleaner wrasse and a cleaner shrimp to eat the ich off of them.
I was turning off my return pump for an hour every feeding and i started noticng the fish breathing very hard and my hippo got ich. I turned the pump back on and the hippo is fine after he got cleaned. I also dose vodka which very possible sucked up lots of oxygen.

Another time i cleaned a 10 gal tank with a rag that had gone thru the wash(laundry soap) - everything i put in that tank died. Until i cleaned the tank and rinsed it with water.

+1 on swapping the water, but i would give the tank a good rinsing first.
I have also heard of using the wrong caulking to seal a tank. it has to be tank silicone ($20) or GE #1 from lowes or home depot($6) GE #2 will kill everything u put in it. (mold inhibitors)

I once put a sick powder blue into a quarantine and died within minutes- not sure why?

 

[deboy69]

Ich is a parasite not bacteria. I has to be introduced to the tank. Not every tank has its. Just to clarify

KCCO

 

[greennate]

Thanks Deboy69 I was thinking of freshwater ich, they are not the same.

 

[greennate]

this article just contradicted everything i thought,
they are probably right -
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

 

[Huskyguy]

Check for stray voltage

 

[FinsUp]

You mentioned dosing vodka. Are you doing that carefully? If not, it could easily suck the oxygen out of your water.
Also, when in doubt, check for stray voltage like some other folks have mentioned.

 

[greennate]

When i moved in here I setup my tank and everytime i stuck my hand in the water it shocked the living **** out of me. If the floor was wet and i was barefoot it was even worse. So i thought i'll put a grounding probe in the tank and ground it to outlet. Wholly crap then it shocked me twice as bad!!! . My corals and fish didnt seem to care. one day i had my electrical tools home and i tested the outlet and it was not grounded - it appeared grounded so i traced it over to another outlet down the wall, where the ground wire had come off. I was getting 40 volts with meter ($3) at harbor freight, i stuck the ground probe into the ground hole on an outlet (after i fixed it) and the red into my tank. it turned out to be a t5 light creatign the voltage although the light didnt touch the water, weird - still dont understand it.


I still swear the fish never cared? yellow tang, hippo, firefish, wrassses, gobys, you know the whole crew.
But im pretty new only been at it a couple years.

 

[greennate]

With vodka i have always just givin it a little squirt - never measured once. Only problems i had was I used to much one day and got slime all over. But i just read an incredible thread by steve wright - showing that bio pellets are the best carbon dosing there is, I started a reactor 2 days ago and have 2 more on the way, i have a 180 and lots of goni's they need food!!!

 

[Off The Deep End]

If you are going to vodka dose you need to make sure you are doing it properly, Read this article before you dose anymore vodka! http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/

 

[Blindrage]

So my oxygen assumption may have been correct. If you overdosed vodka and caused a massive bacteria bloom, then the bacteria would have consumed much of the free oxygen.

The same issue can occur with bio-pellets since the end result is excess carbon that promotes bacteria growth. So make sure you take precautions and do it right.

 

[deboy69]

I think we are getting off track here. The original post didn't mention vodka dosing

KCCO

 

[Off The Deep End]

No but lack of O2 and ick together can kill a fish very quickly, Greennate stated that he does not follow a dosing schedule with vodka he "just squirts some in" which in return can cause lower O2 and make saltwater fish stress and even become lethargic allowing ick to overcome the fish easier. This is just my .02

 

[jda123]

...so much bad stuff going on here...

Get the QT tank up and running. Get a $4 Yellow Tail Blue damsel to always live in there - they are not mean and will teach the other fish how to eat flakes/pellets and will keep it going. No sand, no rock, nothing calcium based... get some 2" or larger PVC elbows and make a mountain of hiding places. Get some coppersafe, cupramine and a test kit (Salifert), but don't use them yet... wait until you need to treat. I might suggest that you don't get any new fish until this is all good.

Unless you let your tank run without fish for 60, or so, days, you will always have ich in the tank. However, the fish don't have to be bothered by it if they are healthy and stuff. If you don't quarantine coral for 60+ days without new additions and without fish, I think that you need to assume that every reef tank has ich, even if it went fallow... it is just too hard not to when the water inside of a inflated coral or on a frag plug can have ich from another tank... coral dip does not kill it.

Don't dose anything that you don't know what you are doing, why you are doing in detail and (mostly) if you cannot test for it. Vodka, bio pellets, vinegar, etc. is a extreme measure in a reef tank that usually does more damage that good. If you have real Nitrate and Phosphate issues, you can typically address these in better ways that using a carbon source. If you start to dose a carbon source on a new tank, then you are looking for trouble in the future in lots of cases - most of these tanks never would have had nitrate or phosphate issues, but will now that they had carbon dosed in them. None carbon dosing is necessary in a well planned, well balanced reef.

 

[greennate]

jda, How else could i do it?
I have lots of goni's and i love to watch my corals grow.
I like feeeding them lots so they grow fast. without carbon dosing i would have to do huge waterchanges every 3 days. I know, been there did it - didnt like it!
I do know of many who dont run skimmers, fuges or uv sterilizers, they dont feed much at all. my coral will outgrow their's handsdown.*
*not every coral - some seem to0 grow quicker with just light.
but duncans blastos favia mushrooms(rics anyway) frogspawn hammer euphylia's (and many others im sure) grow so much faster with regular feedings.
My fish grow super fast and my tank is definitly overstocked a bit w/fish and barely a spot left for coral.
I had high nitrates 100 or so, years ago so i stopped feeding my tank for 3 days and lots of my corals died and got sick because they were so used to getting regular feedings

I must admit , i have a nasty algae bloom like I have always had. i am betting several $100 THAT bio pellets and gfo are gonna solve my probs and 5 boxes of salt today from the mart : ) I hope my bet pays or i may have to change my ways! I put 4 brs reactors on my tank as full as possible w/brs high capaity gfo last week, the algae is lightining up a bit. I picked up a 50lb bag of lie for regeneration .

I also have to admit that i have had an impossible time gettting my ph up to 8. its always low. alk is high 11 or so calc 550 or so - just to try get my ph up with soda ash BRS. i dont ever remember having this problem before with my old 150.

any takes?
tanks
nate