Southdown or Quikrete playsand prep? Eggcrate bottom?

[Ghosty]

I have SouthDown now. I can supplement with more of the same, or Lowe's Quikrete Playsand when I run out.

What's up with this guy?:

No you do not rinse the play sand. You would be washing out the smallest grains and you want them too. Yes you can keep some of your sand to seed it with if you keep it under saltwater from your tank. Will last a couple of days at the right temperature may even last longer.

I've always used CaribSea Aragonite in the past and rinsed the crap out of it with a hose/bucket until it overflows clean. I'm guessing I should do the same with the SD sand, right?

Also, how many of you use eggcrate underneath vs. no eggcrate? I'm leaning towards eggcrate just to add a little extra stability to the LR structure. I like this guy's idea with rubble too:

i always do. i put the egg crate down, then larger rubble rocks and then sand around the rubble. then i stack my live rock on the rubble pieces so that everything is stable and won't move in case you get a fish that decides to burrow

A little further than I probably wanna go, but interesting:

I used eggcrate under my rocks, but the eggcrate sits on pvc pipe legs so the rocks are just above the sand. I drill a small hole in the end of the pvc pipe and tie them onto the eggcrate with small cable ties so they can't shift positions. The rocks sit stable in the eggcrate and the entire bottom of the tank has 2" of sand for all the critters that like to live in there. I used some smaller rocks along the edge of the eggcrate (sitting on the sand) to hide the eggcrate edge. This also promotes flow at the bottom of the tank, around the bottom of the rocks and keeps dead spots to a minimum. I've never had any issues with cyano bacteria since I set the tank up this way (18 months).

Also noted:

I use egg crate, but only under the rocks. I trimmed it and only use it where there are rocks and not completely on the entire tank bottom.

I recently tore down a tank, and the sand was really filthy and smelly (cleared the room of people once I started stirring/scooping the sand out) and full of crap accumulated over time. I don't know if that is a sign of healthy sand or not, but had I seen that before I setup my new tank, I would have gone bare bottom.

 

[ShelbyJK500]

I haven't heard anything good about using SD sand. I'm fairly certain I've heard many people say not to use it...but it's been awhile since I researched sand, and I can't remember the reasons. I'm assuming one of the main reasons is that aragonite sand or any crushed coral/calcium based sand is going to help buffer your tank...where SD sand will not.

I will say the eggcrate bottom to maintain structure for rock, especially if you have burrowing livestock, is a great idea. I might have to do that on any other builds I might do. On that last note, if a sand bed has any decent depth to it, that smell will definitely be natural when stirred up.

 

[ReeferMatt]

I think one of the main problems with play sand is silicate content. The "Southdown" that everyone refers to is aragonite playsand. Common playsand is silica based.

http://www.vafishfreek.com/sandcompairson.htm

 

[Ghosty]

Thanks guys. Yeah, I've gone through a ton of threads, including the ones comparing Silica content and buffering capability, vinegar test, etc. One of the most "technical" with some good comparison is here:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/2/short

Most people seem to say that both SouthDown Playsand and Lowe's Quickrete Playsand are both very reefsafe for many years, and the silica that might be present isn't in any dissolvable form. They say you actually get more silicate from your regular reef salts. As long as you use the "Child safe" versions which have less toxins. Bag should say "silica-free" too. But definitely will be rinsing it first.

 

[jagermeister]

Where did you find SouthDown sand? I had heard they stopped producing it years ago, and I don't think it ever was available in Colorado. Many years ago there was a SouthDown group buy. Back then, to get it out here, you had to order it by the pallet.

As far as rinsing, that was always a big debate, one side saying unrinsed sand can clog filters and it takes forever to settle, and the other side saying unrinsed sand provides vast surface areas for bacteria to colonize. I'm sure there are more pro's and con's but those were two of the main ones.

 

[JNG]

Probably eleven to twelve years ago I purchased two pellets of Southdown sand from Home Depot, which I sold at the time for $6 for a #50lb bag. I had a hard time getting it here, but HD did a store to store transfer for me. I currently am still using that very same sand with some other sand mixed in over the years. Personally I didn't rinse it when I added it, although it did get cloudy for a bit. SD is 100% aragonite based sand. I believe someone else did the same thing a while later. This is probably some reasons you even here about people using it here. I think they changed the name of it, but still sell it back East.
Jerry

 

[Ghosty]

I have a few bags that I won in the Masc/Aquamedic raffle, never actually shopped for it. I think it's also known by another name, "Old Castle" and/or "Yardright", so look for those too:

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f45/old-castle-sand-the-same-as-southdown-19300.html

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f58/yardright-southdown-oldcastle-48883.html

But if you can't get it (like in California), it seems the Lowe's Quikrete premium playsand is suppose to be a good alternative, in these threads:

http://www.google.com/search?q=usin...-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

As for the "not rinsing" advocates, I believe that's only if you're creating a DSB (which I'm not), and want to keep the finest particulate matter & silty stuff, which I do not. Playsand is already fine enough as it is.

 

[jahmic]

Anytime I rinse sand...it's just a quick rinse to get most of the "dust" out. I usually just dump it into a bucket (fill it about halfway), add water treated with a large dose of prime, mix with a dowel, then run water into the bucket and allow it to overflow while I continue to mix for a few minutes.

The tank is still cloudy after setup, but it seems to settle faster and the dust that would pass through the filter floss is mostly gone by that point. I know people that try to rinse to the water runs clear...tried that once and it seemed futile.

Oh...also eggcrate vs no eggcrate, I say it depends on the size of the rocks you're loading into the tank, and how they are arranged. If you are putting some pieces "point down" where a lot of weight is only sitting on a small surface, then it's probably a good idea. Otherwise, I'd just lay my scape on the glass, then add the sand/gravel around it so that it fills in and stabilizes the rock. There's a video somewhere that shows a guy purposely trying to crack the base of a tank. He completely filled it with rock, then stood on the pile. I think it was tempered glass though...so that probably made a difference in how much weight it could support, but if you consider the weight of a full tank I have a hard time believing that the base would shatter if the weight isn't dispersed by eggcrate. Falling rock is another story though. If stability is a concern I feel like you could do a great job keeping things secure with just rubble like that reefer you quoted...without the need for eggcrate. Just my humble opinion though. The other "issue" with eggcrate is that if you have burrowing fish you need to add enough for them to burrow and not expose or hit the eggcrate below...which means you're probably going to be adding more sand. It's hard to get sufficient coverage over the eggcrate with a 1-2" bed. I tried with my cube and gave up on it...

Here's that vid in case you're curious. Like I said...tempered glass, so a significant difference...but still.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgEwEiTyYcs

 

[Off The Deep End]

If you just run your skimmer real wet it will pull all of the dust and finer particules out of your tank from adding new sand that clouds your tank, thats what i do when i set up a new tank and it usually clears it up within a couple hours. Then you just clean the collection cup.

 

[Rebel]

I was in on two different group buys for SD sand years ago. The CHS tank is set up with a DSB entirely of SD sand. No issues with the sand itself (though I may pull out the DSB one of these years). I never rinsed it--just filled the tank, let it be cloudy, and ran a few filter socks to catch as much as I could for a few days. It is a bit messy at first, but settles in fine soon enough.

If you decide not to use it (or if someone else has some extra) I could use a bag for my independent study kid. She will be setting up her 30 cube soon and could use a few inches for the bottom. LMK a price.

Cheers

 

[Ghosty]

If you decide not to use it (or if someone else has some extra) I could use a bag for my independent study kid. She will be setting up her 30 cube soon and could use a few inches for the bottom. LMK a price.

Cheers

You're welcome to one of my bags for your students! To be honest though, I really think it's the exact same stuff at HomeDepot right now for $3-$4/bag. I looked at mine and it says "Tropical Play Sand", mfg. by OldCastle Stone Products, who was SouthDown years ago. Also says "Silica Free", and some say "Sterilized". Supposedly safe for kiddies who might try to eat some, lol. And I've been reading a bunch of different reef-forum threads all over, and I guess they take the same sand, mark it up 10x and sell it as "Reef Sand for Aquarium Use".

Might be quicker for ya, save you a trip up to Thornton. Let me know if you wanna grab that 50# bag.

 

[Ghosty]

And to save everyone the hassle of having to read all the threads, and you're a big inquisitive nerd like me, this explains about the SouthDown source material, and why reefers love it as a cheap alternative to CaribSea and other "aquarium-specific" sand:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...thing+you+ever+wanted+to+know+about+Southdown

Summary:

"This sand is shipped to southdown from Marcona Ocean Industries which is out of Ft. Pierce Florida. They sell to both Southdown, AND Carib-Sea. (they also sell to Martin Marrieta in jacksonville, among others). Marcona Ocean Industries, the company that mines the stuff, does so in the carribean, and has a special agreement with carib-sea. They have a sort of "noncompete" agreement that says that they will not sell sand to anyone doing reefs. Kinda like Panasonic selling its 36" PC bulbs only to custom sealife. Same type deal. anyways, marcona sells to Southdown, Inc. and I am sure that they have told Southdown what the scoop is. (and Southdown probably told HD). . .

All of this comes from a cay in the Bahamas where Marcona has a 24/7 mining operation and fills a boat that has a 3000ton/hr conveyer! (big boat) anyways, they WILL NOT SELL IT TO YOU if you even mention the words: fish, aquarium, tank, reef, saltwater, etc.

 

[JNG]

You know Ghosty, I remember that when I was buying it from HD. Me and the guy talked about it and I officially was buying it for mixing with dirt for rose bushes. :victorious:

 

[Rebel]

"You're welcome to one of my bags for your students! To be honest though, I really think it's the exact same stuff at HomeDepot right now for $3-$4/bag. I looked at mine and it says "Tropical Play Sand", mfg. by OldCastle Stone Products, who was SouthDown years ago. Also says "Silica Free", and some say "Sterilized". Supposedly safe for kiddies who might try to eat some, lol. And I've been reading a bunch of different reef-forum threads all over, and I guess they take the same sand, mark it up 10x and sell it as "Reef Sand for Aquarium Use"."

Thanks, man. I didn't realize that HD carried it locally now. I had to get in on pallet orders earlier. I will nab some down the street. Cheers.

 

[Ghosty]

All good, let me know if you have problems finding it, then you can just come up and grab one of my bags. Also report back on which brand you ended up with, what the bag says exactly (or a picture). Just for future reference and other people here. Good luck!...

 

[jagermeister]

I don't think HD carries Old Castle sand here. I just checked the HD near me and they only carry the Quikrete play sand.