flatworms that wont die!

[240addiction]

Well we got some flatworms in our tank. I am not sure how, but they are there and I cant seem to kill them. For three weeks I did Flatworm Solution once a week followed by a 16 gallon WC on our DT and ran new carbon (actual volume is in the neighborhood of 65 gallons). The FWS makes them crawl around and come out which makes them very easy to siphon out into a filter sock in the sump, but even letting the medication sit for a few hours it still does not kill them. It is almost like it makes them very uncomfortable, but does not actually make them curl up, die and float into the water column. The first time I did it a lot of them came out and I got quite a few of them, but again it did not kill them just made them uncomfortable and come out to be easily siphoned. I did this again last Thursday and there were far fewer but only the ones I could see on the glass or rocks I can siphon up. I have been using the exact dosage recommendations for the FWS as recommended by the LFS, they said to not overdose like you do with Flat Worm Exit. Yesterday I tried to use FWE to see if that would work. I initially tried a dosage for 75 gallons, then 30 minutes later another 50% of 75 gallons, then again 50% more thirty minutes later and finally another 50% for a total of 2.5 times the recommended dosage (probably close to 3 times for my actual volume). I kept dosing because it did not seem to do anything to them. I siphoned out maybe 2 dozen at the most and that was all I could find. They seemed less irritated than with the FWS. I left in the FWE without running carbon for almost 4 hours then let the carbon run for a little bit then did a 16 gallon WC.

I did siphon out one into a cup of water to see what it would take to kill them with both the FWE and FWS, I used water that had 2.5 to 3 times the normal FWE in it and added a total of 5 drops of FWS to the cup (one at a time stirring and waiting in between) and it did not have any effect on them. I then tried one drop of FWE in the cup to see if it had any effect and it did not. I also tried a few drops of Prazipro to see if that might do it as a last resort, but it did nothing.

I dont really want to disassemble the whole tank to fresh water dip everything, but I am not sure what else to do. I dont think that will even kill them all as they might be in the sand etc. I would almost have to do a full fresh water fill to kill everything and hope that works. We currently only have three fish in the tank, a small CUC and a few zoas, but still that would set us back a few more months and we have 4 fish in QT right now. A wrasse is on our list of fish but he will be the last one we add based on everyone's recommendation. It also seems that the Wrasse can be hit or miss with eating them.

I was able to snap a few pictures of him with my phone so you can kind of see what they look like, but they are brown/black with three or so whitish stripes. View attachment 21472 View attachment 21473

Thanks for any help you might be able to provide.

Paul

 

[charleshardy5]

Mellenarus wrasse will clean that up for ya quick or a six line. I've read that Flatwoods can actually build an immunity to the medications and basically they don't do anything. I used flatworm exit once and it worked great the first time then nothing. Luckily the first dose knocked em back enough that my mellenarus was able to keep the population in check, haven't seen a flatworm in prolly close to 8 or 9 months now

 

[Miah2bzy]

I had a similar situation with so many flatworms that it looked like red tide in my tank. Did flatworm exit, dismantled the tank, etc., finally added a six line and no problems since.
U can always add the wrasse now and then rearrange your rock work when u add the rest. So far mine just chills out with the other fish.

 

[Jeremiah]

I did flatworm exit and it worked for me, was so long ago, but I do remember going WAY over on the recomended dose.

Also, besides a wrasse you could also get velvet nudi branch. I saw that aqua mart had them, they are so awsome looking.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+524+2198&pcatid=2198

 

[Miah2bzy]

I did flatworm exit and it worked for me, was so long ago, but I do remember going WAY over on the recomended dosage.]

+1 I added drops to a 5 gallon bucket until they started dying, I had doubled the recommended dose and it took longer than the instructions said. Did it in the bucket because they released a ton of toxins when they died and didn't want the spike in tank. I added the six line afterwards because the flatworm exit didn't get the eggs just the adults and the 6line got them when they hatched.

 

[charleshardy5]

I did flatworm exit and it worked for me, was so long ago, but I do remember going WAY over on the recomended dose.

Also, besides a wrasse you could also get velvet nudi branch. I saw that aqua mart had them, they are so awsome looking.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+524+2198&pcatid=2198

That's cool and all but what do you do when you run out of flatworms? Let him starve? Attempt to fish him out? Don't misunderstand as I think know these are wonderful creatures but at least a wrasse can eat other stuff ya know? Honestly I would say it's Far more beneficial to have along term tank mate than one that will be gone as soon as the pests he eats are gone.

 

[Jeremiah]

I agree longer term is best, i have wrasse.

However, since he said he is waiting before adding a wrasse, I suggested a temporary solution...is this one of those you can't have a tang in a small tank conversations? I have seen people get a sea hair and dbtc it to someone else in the club once the algea was gone. I'm sure he could get the nudi and after his problem is gone trade/give it to someone else in the club.

I don't know how well the nano wrasse help with the issue, but i personally have 2 that are very passive. Probably should be first fish you add with how shy mine are, but as long as you don't have anything agressive they should be fine. (fyi it took me months to get one of the LFS to find the pink streaked and the tanaka's)

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1378+2908&pcatid=2908
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1378+3043&pcatid=3043

 

[240addiction]

treating heavily gets expensive quick and based on what I did it did not work. I did roughly 2.5 times the normal dosage then adding a single drop to the single cup I pulled out is like a 20 times normal dosage (dosage is 4 drops per 5 gallons or .8 drops per gallon. or one drops treats 1.25 gallons. If I treat one cup with one drop it is 20 times the normal dosage) and it still did not kill them. So to treat my 65 gallons with that would cost roughly 100 bucks ($29 X 3 bottles). I did let it sit for a while too.
The problem with getting a mellanarus is they are sometimes reef safe and like inverts (we want to get a watchmen pistol combo), the six lines are semi aggressive, and the nubi branches look cool but seem hard to care for. We want to gt a Flasher Wrasse, but I dont think they will eat them.

 

[240addiction]

I agree with getting a long term solution. Our current fish in the DT tank (in order added) Bartletts anthias, bengali cardinal, and a purple firefish. currently in the QT are two ORA Premium Snowflakes, yellow clown goby and royal gamma.

 

[charleshardy5]

is this one of those you can't have a tang in a small tank conversations? [/URL]

Not at all bud! Was only expressing my thoughts is all, I just personally feel like trying to get that sucker out to DBTC him would be a fun time haha, and also that it would be sad to loose him were he impossible to remove from the tank. I apologize if I gave the impression of picking a fight for it was certainly not the intention

 

[zombie]

You could add a mandarin as well. Mine loves flatworms and they are 100% coral and crustacion safe. As long as you have a fuge and train to eat frozen in a short QT, you could support one long term in a 75 gal.

 

[Miah2bzy]

flatworms that wont die!

I agree with getting a long term solution. Our current fish in the DT tank (in order added) Bartletts anthias, bengali cardinal, and a purple firefish. currently in the QT are two ORA Premium Snowflakes, yellow clown goby and royal gamma.

How much are you feeding your tank currently? I've had cardinalfish and firefish that eat pods so would assume they'd eat the flatworms too, had seen some others that said that on reefcentral(though I don't believe everything I read), could try cutting back on ur food and see if they start to go after the flatworms...anyone else have thoughts on this?

 

[240addiction]

How much are you feeding your tank currently? Those are all carnivorous/omnivores. I've had cardinalfish and firefish that eat pods so would assume they'd eat the flatworms too, could try cutting back on ur food and see if they start to go after the flatworms...anyone else have thoughts on this?

Three times a day. We were told the anthias had a fast metabolism and needed lots of feedings.

 

[Jeremiah]

No big deal, I also have to remember that other people actually have large tanks. I just barely went up to a 60 gallon and had 4/8/16 before so I've never really had that hard of a time catching things to get them out.

All i can think is how hard can it be to fish out a slug? Once he is out in the open, which i assume he would be searching for food ALOT once they are gone...pick him up done...they move SLOW.

Not at all bud! Was only expressing my thoughts is all, I just personally feel like trying to get that sucker out to DBTC him would be a fun time haha, and also that it would be sad to loose him were he impossible to remove from the tank. I apologize if I gave the impression of picking a fight for it was certainly not the intention

 

[jda123]

How long did you let the treatment work? It can take quite some while. You typically need to treat four or five times where you leave the last dose or two in there for 24 hours, or so.

If you need some more, I can make you enough for 500G and leave it out on the porch. FWE uses levamisole and you can get a pouch to treat tens of thousands of gallons for about $25 on eBay. I have plenty of it.

If you have a lot, a wrasse won't help at all.

 

[240addiction]

How long did you let the treatment work? It can take quite some while. You typically need to treat four or five times where you leave the last dose or two in there for 24 hours, or so.

If you need some more, I can make you enough for 500G and leave it out on the porch. FWE uses levamisole and you can get a pouch to treat tens of thousands of gallons for about $25 on eBay. I have plenty of it.

If you have a lot, a wrasse won't help at all.

I let it sit for 4 hours. I don't see any tonight, but I am sure there are still a few.

If I need to leave in a heavy dose for 24 hours I can, I just have not ever heard that before . If I need a dose that heavy I can go buy another couple bottles and just do that. If there are only a few left do I need to worry about the toxins tanking the tank?

 

[jda123]

Just a regular dose will do. Leave it in there for 24 hours. The med is quite harmless - the organics from the worms are the issue. If you get to where you don't think that you have many left, then the timeframe should be OK. Everybody should do one last treatment once they think that they got them all.

 

[240addiction]

flatworms that wont die!

I think I am there now. I have not seen any today. I will wait until tomorrow morning and add a regular dose then.

 

[jda123]

You can make your own solution. 1tsp of Prohibit in 500ml (water bottle). .5 to .75 ml per gallon of tank water.

 

[240addiction]

small update: I added a full cap of FWE to the tank last night. Some of them started to come out (6 or so) and I netted them off the glass and later in the evening there were about 6 very small ones on the glass. I left them to see if they are still there this morning. I noticed a few on the glass this morning and I left them as well. Not sure if it is killing them, but they are out. I am going to do a water change when I get home later today and run some carbon. I might try to do some Flatworm Solution later this week in the same fashion.