Make a dream come true and protect what you love at the same time
- Thread starter WatercolorsGuy
- Start date
Umm you do realize Sea Shepard is activly trying to shut down the marine aquarium hobby right? http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and...peration-reef-defense-campaign-in-hawaii-1501
Not that I am trying to stop the funding just thought people would like to know.
Not that I am trying to stop the funding just thought people would like to know.
I didn't see anything about shutting down the marine aquarium hobby as it pertains to captive propagation and breeding. As a marine aquarium keeper I also want our reefs safe and around for generations to come. If you feel the only way for you to keep your tank going is by destroying the reef ecosystem than that is in itself tragic.
No i am actually a huge supporter of conservation, just trying to say dig into it some more. They have been the primary supporters of the legislation in Hawaii the past few years that seeks to completly shut down all collection in the state of aquarium fish yet ignores harvest for food. This has been primarily spearheaded by Robert Whitnner who sits on the boar of Sea Sheapard and who freely admits it is to protect his snorkeling business. I am mainly saying they are trying to go about it the wrong way is all.
Here is some more reading that goes into the issue further
http://thegardenisland.com/news/loc...cle_3fc5817c-347b-11e2-b596-001a4bcf887a.html
http://blog.aquanerd.com/2012/10/anti-aquarium-activists-file-suit-to-stop-aquarium-collection.html
http://reefbuilders.com/2011/10/12/hawaiian-ornamental-fishing-ban/
http://www.reefs.org/forums/topic127352.html
Here is some more reading that goes into the issue further
http://thegardenisland.com/news/loc...cle_3fc5817c-347b-11e2-b596-001a4bcf887a.html
http://blog.aquanerd.com/2012/10/anti-aquarium-activists-file-suit-to-stop-aquarium-collection.html
http://reefbuilders.com/2011/10/12/hawaiian-ornamental-fishing-ban/
http://www.reefs.org/forums/topic127352.html
Srsly? Kind of an overreaction to someone giving more information regarding the organization you'd like people to send money to. There may be folks still interested in supporting it, believe it or not. But now they can't, because you couldn't handle Scott's response and reacted this way.
+10 I support conservation, and hate what I've seen in reefs the last few years. But this guy has an ulterior motive, clearly. What people need to decide for themselves is whether or not his actions/results are positive enough to ignore his motives.
+10 I support conservation, and hate what I've seen in reefs the last few years. But this guy has an ulterior motive, clearly. What people need to decide for themselves is whether or not his actions/results are positive enough to ignore his motives.
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One of the biggest issues that we face in the hobby is the misinformation regarding the collection of wild fish and inverts. There are sustainable methods, and then there are those used in many 3rd world locations. Cyanide is not sustainable, net fishing is. Managing reefs is sustainable, dynamite fishing for food is not.
There are many acceptable uses of the ocean, recreational boating, cargo transport, sport fishing and diving/snorkeling. However each of them can cause damage. Have you seen the damage that anchors cause, particularly when they are dragging chain? Recreational boating also impacts water quality around harbors.
Add to that the stress put on net fishing and long line fishing and the associated bycatch.... yet fishing doesn't catch as much hell as reef keeping.
Agriculture has a big negative effect... runoff of fertilizers and pesticides causes algal blooms and coral death. Mining waste and runoff has a huge localized effect in some areas. We also have to take into account loss of reef habitat due to storms. If you've ever seen a reef after a large tropical depression or cyclone has gone through... it's a rubble field.
Add to all of that climate change and ocean acidification.... not to mention the trash that we manage to dump into our oceans on a daily basis.... it's amazing that life flourishes as well as it does.
We should all agree that conservation is important.... but conservation doesn't mean loss of acceptable use. It's management..... backed by science, not by hype.
Sea Shepard and Snorkel Bob don't seem to leverage the science.... they appear to me to operate in the realm of hyperbole and opinion. I personally don't believe that a net trained collector in Hawaii is 'raping the reef'.... but would argue that dynamite fishing and cyanide are not sustainable. The oceans face many problems.... and we all can do better through our own choices when deciding what animal to maintain based on sustainability and supply chain. There's a reason that an Indo coral costs 1/4 the price of an Australian coral. It's not distance.... it's supply chain management and sustainability.
There are many acceptable uses of the ocean, recreational boating, cargo transport, sport fishing and diving/snorkeling. However each of them can cause damage. Have you seen the damage that anchors cause, particularly when they are dragging chain? Recreational boating also impacts water quality around harbors.
Add to that the stress put on net fishing and long line fishing and the associated bycatch.... yet fishing doesn't catch as much hell as reef keeping.
Agriculture has a big negative effect... runoff of fertilizers and pesticides causes algal blooms and coral death. Mining waste and runoff has a huge localized effect in some areas. We also have to take into account loss of reef habitat due to storms. If you've ever seen a reef after a large tropical depression or cyclone has gone through... it's a rubble field.
Add to all of that climate change and ocean acidification.... not to mention the trash that we manage to dump into our oceans on a daily basis.... it's amazing that life flourishes as well as it does.
We should all agree that conservation is important.... but conservation doesn't mean loss of acceptable use. It's management..... backed by science, not by hype.
Sea Shepard and Snorkel Bob don't seem to leverage the science.... they appear to me to operate in the realm of hyperbole and opinion. I personally don't believe that a net trained collector in Hawaii is 'raping the reef'.... but would argue that dynamite fishing and cyanide are not sustainable. The oceans face many problems.... and we all can do better through our own choices when deciding what animal to maintain based on sustainability and supply chain. There's a reason that an Indo coral costs 1/4 the price of an Australian coral. It's not distance.... it's supply chain management and sustainability.
I agree that there is a difference between sustainable and damaging. I also feel that reef keeping helps raise awareness for reefs. It's hard to get people to care about something they cannot interact with. Reef keeping helps bring that interaction to people who can't go diving off the coast of Australia.
It's my opinion that this discussion is a good thing to continue. If this young lady wants to go join the Sea Shepherd and try to help stop whaling, all the power to her, people should follow their own path. If people choose to help her, even better for her. There are two different discussions going on here. What the Japanese are continuing to do to the whales under the disguise of "scientific research" is sickening and I hope something terrible happens to the people who slaughter those majestic animals for no reason. If that is her intention, then I hope she is successful in her attempt to defend the defenseless whales. However, what Sea Shepherd's boss man Snorkel Bob is trying to do the marine aquarium trade is truly scary. Here is why...
It's ironic that someone brought up mining b/c that's going to be my example of why Snorkel Bobs selfish attempt to shut down the marine aquarium industry should really make people pay attention. As a miner I've seen this same thing happen just recently and it didn't end well. Fly fishing guides and fly supply dealerships in California have their act together. They are deeply entrenched in California upper class society as well as in state government. They got tired of sharing "their" rivers with gold prospectors. They got together and decided to fill the public with misinformation and propaganda stating that gold prospectors were killing all the trout. They brought it to court and managed to get all dredging banned in California waters. The same state that only has the wealth it has BECAUSE of gold miners managed to shut them out. Here is the problem, the information presented to the public was flat out lies. Any fly fisherman who read what was presented absolutely smirked to themselves because they could see it was all about just getting the rivers to themselves. At court, there was overwhelming support for the fishermen, not because they were right but rather there are more people who fly fish than prospect. So they won. Getting that law reversed is going to be a long process. Dredging actually IMPROVES trout habitat by stirring up food and digging holes which are almost always used by fish later as pre dug spawning beds. But, the facts didn't matter because the fisherman were better represented.
Thats where all this ties together. It's scary how these two completely different things are following the same path. Snorkel Bob wants the hawaiian reefs to himself. He is feeding false information to the public about the effects of a few people permitted to net fish on the reef. Same as the fishermen lying about trout dying b/c of dredging, Snorkel Bob has the hawaiian public believing that ALL fish taken off the reef WILL die within a year. Again, same as CA and the number of fly fishermen compared to dredgers, how many people in Hawaii snorkel ? A lot of them do. What scares me is that a lot of really rich influential people go to Hawaii, how many of them snorkel with Snorkel Bob ? Every one of them is getting the reef killer speech right after spending the day snorkeling with all the beautiful fish. Truthfully, it makes me concerned that the time will soon come when a law is passed against ALL taking of fish from Hawaii for aquarium trade. I hope anyone who is concerned about being able to purchase hawaiian fish pays attention to what's going on. The miners didn't take it serious enough and now we are left out while others use the same waters for their own gain.
On a personal note, I spent a month in Hawaii and snorkeled every single day except the day of the Blue Marlin trip. What I saw was repeated large groups of snorkelers led by a guide (like Snorkel Bob) who completely disrespected the rules of coral reefs. People would often get tired and stand on the corals or use them as hand holds to pull them self along or anchor them self in place against the ebb and flow of the current. Not once did I see a guide tell them no, that might hurt the tip. My opinion is that the snorkel and kayak guides are killing the reefs. There's my two cents.
It's ironic that someone brought up mining b/c that's going to be my example of why Snorkel Bobs selfish attempt to shut down the marine aquarium industry should really make people pay attention. As a miner I've seen this same thing happen just recently and it didn't end well. Fly fishing guides and fly supply dealerships in California have their act together. They are deeply entrenched in California upper class society as well as in state government. They got tired of sharing "their" rivers with gold prospectors. They got together and decided to fill the public with misinformation and propaganda stating that gold prospectors were killing all the trout. They brought it to court and managed to get all dredging banned in California waters. The same state that only has the wealth it has BECAUSE of gold miners managed to shut them out. Here is the problem, the information presented to the public was flat out lies. Any fly fisherman who read what was presented absolutely smirked to themselves because they could see it was all about just getting the rivers to themselves. At court, there was overwhelming support for the fishermen, not because they were right but rather there are more people who fly fish than prospect. So they won. Getting that law reversed is going to be a long process. Dredging actually IMPROVES trout habitat by stirring up food and digging holes which are almost always used by fish later as pre dug spawning beds. But, the facts didn't matter because the fisherman were better represented.
Thats where all this ties together. It's scary how these two completely different things are following the same path. Snorkel Bob wants the hawaiian reefs to himself. He is feeding false information to the public about the effects of a few people permitted to net fish on the reef. Same as the fishermen lying about trout dying b/c of dredging, Snorkel Bob has the hawaiian public believing that ALL fish taken off the reef WILL die within a year. Again, same as CA and the number of fly fishermen compared to dredgers, how many people in Hawaii snorkel ? A lot of them do. What scares me is that a lot of really rich influential people go to Hawaii, how many of them snorkel with Snorkel Bob ? Every one of them is getting the reef killer speech right after spending the day snorkeling with all the beautiful fish. Truthfully, it makes me concerned that the time will soon come when a law is passed against ALL taking of fish from Hawaii for aquarium trade. I hope anyone who is concerned about being able to purchase hawaiian fish pays attention to what's going on. The miners didn't take it serious enough and now we are left out while others use the same waters for their own gain.
On a personal note, I spent a month in Hawaii and snorkeled every single day except the day of the Blue Marlin trip. What I saw was repeated large groups of snorkelers led by a guide (like Snorkel Bob) who completely disrespected the rules of coral reefs. People would often get tired and stand on the corals or use them as hand holds to pull them self along or anchor them self in place against the ebb and flow of the current. Not once did I see a guide tell them no, that might hurt the tip. My opinion is that the snorkel and kayak guides are killing the reefs. There's my two cents.