Nitrate problem

[CrashNT]

The past two weeks I have experienced a HUGE jump in nitrates. I went from having a constant NO3 reading of 0.25 PPM. It has jumped up to a constant 30ppm argh! I have done a 40% water change every sunday since this started. It helps for a day or so, then jump right back up. I can't afford(monetary/time-wise) to keep buying salt every single week for these lengthy water changes. I have tried adding a additional DSB to my sump, adding more macro, dosing instant oceans no3 reducer, cutting back on feedings and nothing is working.

Any suggestions on what is causing my NO3 spike? I feed the tank phytofeast and a frozen blend of krill/mysid/algae/seaweed/ect. The phytofeast I dose daily about 1-2Tsp.

Think I should try vodka dosing? LOL the only reason I haven't tried this yet, is I fear I might make more use of the vodka than the tank

 

[CrashNT]

off topic:

How can I edit posts? LOL I really need to start proof reading what I type...

 

[Mav]

Edit posts once you become a member. Either attend next 2 meetings or $25 (I think) for membership dues

 

[Smiley]

slow down for one..... im sure adding the dsb to an already existing problem caused it jump even more.

First thing is what info do we have on your tank? size? how long has it been established? livestock? sump? refugium? skimmer? powerheads? lights? info man... info!

my suggestion from what I read..... cut your phyto dose in half, and feed only your fish, not your "tank"... if you have small gobi, feed twice a day but half of what you normally would. stop with the no3 reducer...all it does is mask the problem...

 

[Smiley]

and in order to edit a post, you must be a member of MASC. Attend 2 meetings or donate $25...

 

[jda123]

If you are going to dose carbon, then sugar is the same as vodka, but a lot cheaper and more pure. We can argue whether giving your fish alcoholism or type-2 diabetes is better or worse... You will need a good skimmer, though.

Anything is going to take more than a couple of weeks, so be patient.

The nitrate can feed the coral for a while, I would quit dosing everything and just feed your fish. How are your phosphates? You need phosphate to grow stuff with a carbon source.

Some easy things that you can do:
Clean your skimmer and skimmer pump - it will work better, and even if it is only 10%, that is still 10%
Clean your sump - suck the debris and junk out with a wet vac if there is any
Vac your gravel, if you are a gravel guy
Wash your mysis and meaty foods

 

[CrashNT]

Ah I see.. Didn't know that.

Tank size: 65gal
Total water volume: 100gal
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Set-up tank: January 2nd
Added livestock: Febuary 10th
Refugium: 5gal chamber in sump, additional 10gal refuge
skimmer: Pro-Clear Aquatics MPS 150
Return-pump: 1033gph, 800 at the head
Water circulator: 700gph
Lighting: coralife 10,000k and actinics 48"
Live rock: 50lbs
Sandbed: DT=3", 10gal refuge=4", 5gal refuge=4"

As for feeding the tank... Im not sure what you mean? I only put enough in that the fish will eat in the first 30sec without pumps running. The phytofeast I thought was needed for the filter feeders? If not how do these guys normally get their food? Does my tank already produce enough for the xenia's to flourish?

 

[CrashNT]

Forgot some params...

Calcium: 440ppm
Phosphates: 0
dKH: 9
Temp: 78-79 depending on if refuge lights running
Lighting on refuge: Mercury Vapor bulb for full spectrum lighting
Running 500g of carbon
As for the NO3 reducer.. I heard it was a natural way to reduce NO3 because of the bio-degradable polymers?

 

[djkms]

If you go the route of dosing sugar please please please use caution. It is very easy to overdose sugar. Vinegar is a much better solution for carbon dosing.

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1225324

 

[jda123]

Your tank is still cycling. The oxic cycle is done, so you have no ammonia or nitrate. However, the anoixc bacteria are not yet done developing in their part of the cycle.

I would stop adding any reducer and go to a regular water change schedule. This will just take some time for the system to catch up. As the anoxic bacteria start to form, they nitrates will go down - if you starve them of NO3, then they will never develop.

There will be a day when you wish that all of your xenia will die... and people try and kill them with much effort. For now, they can find whatever they need to eat from the water column without any additional feedings. They will be fine.

 

[CrashNT]

Your tank is still cycling. The oxic cycle is done, so you have no ammonia or nitrate. However, the anoixc bacteria are not yet done developing in their part of the cycle.

I would stop adding any reducer and go to a regular water change schedule. This will just take some time for the system to catch up. As the anoxic bacteria start to form, they nitrates will go down - if you starve them of NO3, then they will never develop.

There will be a day when you wish that all of your xenia will die... and people try and kill them with much effort. For now, they can find whatever they need to eat from the water column without any additional feedings. They will be fine.

Thanks for this piece. Never thought about anaerobic bacteria taking longer than a month to cycle. What is the time frame on their colonization? Would it be recommended to not disturb the sand bed during this time so the anaerobic bacteria has a chance to colonize under it? Or simply would the amount of live rock I have do the trick? As for the Xenia, I love this coral, I fell in love when I saw a 30gal bio cube with a nothing but xenia pulsating... was so hypnotic I hope that day doesnt come, but If it does... crap lol

 

[Smiley]

my system took about 10 weeks to fully cycle...65g frag, 55g refugium, 46g sump.

 

[ReeferMatt]

You really shouldn't disturb the sand anyway, leave it alone.

 

[djkms]

You really shouldn't disturb the sand anyway, leave it alone.

I'm not convinced this is true, there are more ways to skin a cat as they say. It is a known fact that no matter how small the grain of sand you have all sand beds become detritus traps at some point. So do we just leave this crap in our systems or do we actively take it out? When I broke down my 125 last year I didn't disturb the bed and let me tell you, it was a filthy cesspool of crap! IMO leaving all that crap in our systems is just asking for trouble. Granted if you have a undisturbed bed for years you should probably leave it alone or at least go very very slowly cleaning it. With my current 225 I vacuum my sand on every water change (every 2 weeks) and I honestly believe this will help prolong the life of my tank.

Here are a couple good, recent reads for anyone that is interested in the subject:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2264820

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2268433

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2125242

Sorry Reefermatt, not trying to be argumentative, just trying to give a different point of view

 

[ReefCheif]

But how do you vaccuum sugar sand?

 

[djkms]

I use this:

There is a valve on the vacuum that a turn down so the sand just barely goes into the tube. I do lose some sand into the sink but not much.

 

[Smiley]

Re: Nitrate problem

I believe that if you have a sandbed, you either have a proper cuc, or you fail.....

Sent from my C771

 

[ReefCheif]

I believe that if you have a sandbed, you either have a proper cuc, or you fail.....

Sent from my C771

This is probably why Ive never worried about cleaning my sand. CUC is very important!

 

[djkms]

I believe that if you have a sandbed, you either have a proper cuc, or you fail.....

Sent from my C771

You do realize that once organic waste gets broken down to a certain point even your CUC will not remove or break it down further right?

Implying that someone is fail because their method differs from yours is rather brash....

btw, in my old 125 I had over 30 nassarius snails, 50 dwarf ceriths and 30 regular ceriths and detritus still accumilated. I bet if I came over to your tank and vacuumed your "proper cuc" sandbed I would pull all kinds of junk out of your bed.

 

[Fitz19d]

I think he meant without a good CUC, whether you leave it or do some vacuuming, still going to struggle at some point.