NSA and government spying

[Cherub]

So Germany just announced that the US has been spying on their chancellor through her mobile phone. So now that makes Mexico, Germany and France with accusations just this week of US spying and breach of trust.

I am just curious what everyone thinks about all of this? It seems none of my friends care either way, they would rather smoke and play video games and go to the gym and pretend that the US isn’t committing treason. Now I want to know who here is thinking about this or if everyone has grown lethargic.

The US is spying on international governments and even worse they are spying on us. I have a huge issue with this personally. I have a feeling we are going to end up with some sort of action like impeaching our president to appease the world, but who will appease us?

This is just a friendly conversation among people I consider friends. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/23/us-monitored-angela-merkel-german

 

[sethsolomon]

I agree. The NSA spying on everyone is completely ****ed up. I personally don't know what I can do to help change this.

 

[Munch]

Makes you wonder what goes on behind the scenes. Anyone with the capability is likely doing it.

 

[Blindrage]

My personal opinion is that this has been happening for years, but it is just now getting into the news. We will make a big deal of cleaning things up, firing some people, changing policies, etc. Then in the background they will continue doing exactly what they have always done.

 

[jda123]

Circle of influence, circle of concern. Also, none of us actually knows what is going on... just opinions on what may, or may not, have happened. I can tell you this from my own experiences... I have tons of firearms that I have paid the fee and got the stamp/tag for... nobody has ever bothered me, nationally or locally, despite what people write about on the web or in some publications about "government" wanting or "taking away" your guns and stuff. If you can extrapolate this beyond guns, then I tend to doubt that everything is as extreme as what is written. The truth is probably not as sensationalized. ...so I don't think about it much.

If they catch anybody doing it, somebody will pull out the script from Oliver North all over again and it will stop with a single person.

 

[Cherub]

I am not sure how you can say none know what's going on when Edward Snowden has been leaking information for several months about the NSA and it's actions. It's all too clear what is going on. I am also not sure why your guns came into the conversation about the US spying on its people and other countries. Though no one has come to you about your fire arms so far it does not mean people aren't working to take them away. Just because it has not happened does not mean you should turn a blind eye to the actions of our elected officials. The corruption in our system runs deep and it's becoming hard to distinguish friend from foe.

 

[djkms]

Not trying to be partisan here but fact is; the liberal media will will not sway public opinion away from the liberal President who would need to be impeached by the liberal congress (mainly senate now but the liberal media is pushing towards a liberal run house via the republican smear campaign underway). I just state this in response to your impeachment comment, impeachment will NEVER happen when the same party the President is in also controls congress and MSM. Maybe 20 years ago but not this day in age.

In regards to the NSA spying (and for that matter, the stripping of our rights) this has been going on for a long long long time. The Government has always used every tool at its disposal in order to gain and keep the upper hand over EVERYONE, not just enemies but citizens alike. Think about the Government for a second, they consider themselves elite, above us, above everyone. They know whats better for us then we do. Its all about control, always has been. The more they know about us, the easier we are to control.

The only difference between now and the past is the free flow of information, its much harder to hide their ways, so instead of denying it, they use crisis to install fear so they can "provide protection" when in reality they are asserting control. There is noting partisan about this, both sides of the isle strive for this unfortunately.

I find it very sad that thousands of soldiers have fought and lost their lives fighting for the very freedoms that our own Government is slowly chipping away at in the name of safety.

 

[jda123]

I only bring up the guns to point out that, to me, this is no different than anything else in the history of man - the methods have changed with technology, but little else. You could read books until your eyes bleed about the founding fathers, ancient rome, greece, catholic church, etc. and how the used coercion, bribery, secrecy, murder, etc. to get what they wanted - those who got in their way paid dearly and the public was told lies or just kept in the dark. Rarely, does much change for the day-to-day of the average people as long as the "powerful" keep their power.

I have no doubt that spying is happening to some degree. I have no idea to what degree. It could be terrible. I do believe that if it was happening at a level where the perps would get caught and actually have to answer for their actions, then any witness would be long dead. Sure, there are people who claim to know, but how much can they know if what they knew was real and could get people in real trouble? There were a bunch of people in the 1960s who had proof that the president, governors, congressmen, etc. were aliens from Area 51 trying to take over the world with the same type of logic and proof that you hear with every conspiracy - as the years play out Snowden could look just as silly as the alien promoters, or be proved a prophet. I don't know which. I just think that us finding out anything real about spying or anybody taking actual action over it is about as likely as somebody knocking on my door and asking for my guns, us finding out who shot JFK, the real reason behind Vietnam or Iraq, what happened to Jimmy Hoffa, whether the US Government really knew that Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked, MIB really exist, or if Abraham Lincoln was really a vampire slayer. I am not saying that none of this happens, or has happened, just that worrying about it and thinking about it too much doesn't make much sense to me personally.

Beyond casting a vote for a candidate that could effect a critical mass for change, what can we do? Have you ever seen anybody run on such a platform? If there is something to actually be done, what is it?

As far as impeachment, it will not ever likely happen again. There are always people who want to see any President impeached, no matter which side. Obama is the most recent example, but there are people trying to send George Bush to jail for killing thousands of troops and spending billions of dollar in Iraq when he knew for sure that there were no WMDs... or for letting his friends wreak havoc on gas prices in the US to speculate on oil with money that they did not have. Everybody knows about Billy's problems. Bush Sr. for letting the government lend money to Enron. Reagan was supposed to have needed impeached for selling arms to Iran. One man's hero is another man's goat - impeachment over politics would start a never-ending spiral that no party will want a part of since it will just get easier and easier each time and eventually nobody would be safe. The closest that we might come is a personal scandal, but Billy survived his ordeal and the blue dress is not being reproduced by the GAP.

This is a serious question: what freedom do you not have today that you had on the day that you were born?

 

[Ambrosio Aquatics]

the gov has been spying on us for years.keeping tabs on books people check out or buy, then internet sites. and now the addition of the ever so popular social media is just another (much easier) way the government can keep tabs on us. we actually keep tabs on our-self by tweeting and posting every single thing we do and where we go all day long. not to sound to much like a conspiracy nut but don't be surprised if in the next several years we end up in a mark of the best type situation. they already training us by smart devises. they want us to be used to a single object that has all of are information

 

[djkms]

the gov has been spying on us for years.keeping tabs on books people check out or buy, then internet sites. and now the addition of the ever so popular social media is just another (much easier) way the government can keep tabs on us. we actually keep tabs on our-self by tweeting and posting every single thing we do and where we go all day long. not to sound to much like a conspiracy nut but don't be surprised if in the next several years we end up in a mark of the best type situation. they already training us by smart devises. they want us to be used to a single object that has all of are information

This is the main reason I dropped social media. It dawned on me, I posted everything I like, posted about things I don't like, have pictures of all my friends, family life events, friends lists, where I went, who I saw, pretty much cataloged my whole life on Facebook. To think no entity out there is using that information for nefarious purposes is naive.

jda, the right I had when i was born that I don't have today is a right to privacy. Heck maybe I didn't have that right back then but at least I had the illusion of that right. Today it is made blatantly obvious that I do not have that right. How about unlawful search and seizure? 35 years ago It would require a warrant, today it just requires someone labeling you as a terrorist or a threat. Its a sad state of affairs when those who vote don't even realize what they vote for. Not saying this is you jda but a majority of America has no clue how their elected officials are shaping this county. Like you stated, the only true power we have is at the voting booth but most would rather vote for those who can benefit them now with little regard for the effect on the future. Or they vote because someone is likable or cool. sad sad.

 

[jda123]

You all know that your ISP keeps track of every packet that goes in/out of your home? There are many reasons why, but I don't doubt that these somehow make it to some kind of archive somewhere. The more salient reason that the ISP keeps them (for most of us) is for legal issues like IP & Copyright violations. If somebody wanted to watch you, they don't need social media to do it... they can just get it from the ISPs. This data is very expensive to keep and does get deleted from the ISP.

I think that you have the same rights now that you did then. I have searched high and low for a right that was taken away from me and there simply are none - the media (liberal or otherwise), lobbyists, etc like to talk about it, but it is not true... but it can sound good. Like you said, awareness and illusion are different now, for sure. Besides, privacy is an illusion, like so many other things. It is interesting to me that the definition of Privacy says "the state or condition of being free from being observed or disturbed by other people." Can somebody see the day coming when a state or federal supreme court rule that your privacy was not violated because a computer did the observing and not a person?

I will save my voting, political and opinions about the future of both for another thread.

 

[Cherub]

There are softwares that prevent your ISP from collecting information just so you people know. I use peerblock personally. It's not that I have anything to hide but I do what I can to ensure I have the privacy I am entitled to as a sovereign human being.

I don't think our privacy was an illusion in the past Kris. The world has changed. I still believe 911 was an inside job in order to begin a process. There is just too much evidence. Like the Pentagon was never hit by a plane. The single surveillance camera video that was released shows that much as well as there wasn't a single piece of airplane recovered at the pentagon. I have no idea what the end result is other than the stuff we find in conspiracy theories eluding to a one world government. Maybe that's true and maybe not. What is true is our country is slowly being dismantled and our liberties are being extracted all for "our protection." I have said before that the soldiers right now fighting wars should not be considered hero's because they do not defend our country from anything, rather they support an agenda that is really unknown to most. I have seen videos of some military who are hero's because they stand up for themselves and say the killing will stop. And like Edward Snowden who has been demonized by the media risked everything to make sure we are all informed. So it is wrong of me to say there are no hero's in our military, just most are lemmings, or love to kill and see people burn or are just too scared to do what is right.

Yep Nick I have my faith and I sometimes think we live in the last days too. I didn't really intend for the conversation to go this direction but since you peeked my interest... Mark of the beast time? Maybe.

I was going to send you this video in a PM but thought that maybe others should watch this too. I just ask that if we discuss this we start a new thread to stay on topic of the corruption in our nation.

This was the best version of the video I could find and even still the audio is horrible. Bear with it

[video=youtube;6gELY3Brwd0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gELY3Brwd0[/video]

 

[Kieth71]

Wow grassy knoll stuff going on here lol..may wanna take this to a political blog or something.

 

[Cherub]

Wow grassy knoll stuff going on here lol..may wanna take this to a political blog or something.

There is no reason for us to go anywhere else. If you knew us you would know we are friends here and speak freely about anything. If you want to partake youre welcome but if all you wish is to send us negativity then please refrain. That is not our way.

 

[Cherub]

So this is just getting worse... now it seems the US has been spying on 35 world leaders...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/24/nsa-surveillance-world-leaders-calls

 

[sethsolomon]

I feel another war coming on...

 

[Munch]

I heard heavy breathing on my last call... I'm getting really freaked out now.

 

[Cherub]

I heard heavy breathing on my last call... I'm getting really freaked out now.

Phone sex operator?

 

[Cherub]

I feel another war coming on...

I doubt that but lord only knows. I hope not! I think we will be losing a lot of allies and we will be forced into impeachment. I would be glad to impeach everyone on capital hill and starting from scratch. There needs to be a way to police the government instead of them policing us.

 

[jda123]

It is too soon for another war, unless an attack happens. In 10-12 years, be on the lookout for a candidate highly supported by international companies, including big oil, like George Bush was. There is a pretty clear pattern - even if you cannot do anything about it, you can invest in those companies if the candidate gets elected since they ALWAYS do well afterwards.

Who thinks that 9/11 was known about and allowed to let happen, or even partially funded/helped by the US government so that they could go to war afterward? I have seen the hour-long videos, articles, etc. on this one too.