Clams not opening

[ryan820]

I have a maxima (a few months now) and a croceas (few weeks) that have been opening every day, fully, and have looked just incredible. But the past two days or so they have not been opening fully. I have of course checked my water parameters:

Salinity at 1.025
Ammonia 0
Ph 7.8 to 8.0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5-10ppm
Ca 400

That's what I'm able to test for...oh and temps around 75 to 77

So I thought my corals looked a little less than their usual so I did a five gallon water change today on my 46 gallon tank. I have to retest the parameters as the numbers above are before, not after.

My skimmer has been funny lately...not skimming much and then skimming a ton of very wet skim mate.

The corals are looking just fine tonight...very full and colorful and quite what I would expect to see. But my clams still continue to stay mostly closed.

Placement... The maxima refused to stay put high in the tank and so is in the bottom quarter of the 18 inch high tank and the croceas is on the sand bed...the lights are six t5s that aren't new but not old either...a few months for both.

Fish...I have a six line, two clowns and a bi color. I have not noticed anyone bothers the clams. I believe I saw the bicolor nip the croceas but it was a weird angle and I believe he nipped the shell not the mantle. Not sure...

Inverts, like my cleaner shrimp and snails on occasion skirt over them and cause them to close but they don't linger long and normal the clams open up right away again.

So I need help...what do you guys think is going on? Do clams just shut like this every now and then like sOme corals seem to do? I fid it odd that both are most closed at the same time.

Looking for ideas and thanks for reading.

 

[jagermeister]

You pH seems a little low. Keep an eye on your bicolor blenny. They've been known to nip at clam mantles. If he does it on a consistent basis that would cause the clams to shut up.

Also, check for parasites on the clams themselves, particularly pyramid snails.

 

[ryan820]

You pH seems a little low. Keep an eye on your bicolor blenny. They've been known to nip at clam mantles. If he does it on a consistent basis that would cause the clams to shut up.

Also, check for parasites on the clams themselves, particularly pyramid snails.

Yes the blenny is under watch...didn't see him bother anything last night at all but I will keep an eye on him.

I did another water change last night...an additional ten gallons, making the total replacement at 15. I tested my water again and either the water change did the trick or my first test was bad but the pH is 8.2 now, easily....hard to tell sometimes with those stupid color charts. However the real issue became my nitrates...I believe it's between 10 and 20 ppm. Would that cause the clams to shut up? My ammonia was elevated to, up from zero like it normally is. I tested after the water change and the ph is 8.2, ammonia tested zero and nitrates are back down to 5 to 10 ppm. I think I owe it to myself to do another larger water change today, or shall I wait?

I have never had an issue with nitrates before. I havent changed the feeding habits or added anything new ot the tank that I know of that would contribute to a large bio load. So I'm am uncertain where the nitrates are coming from.

Also, would running fresh carbon help? The carbon that is in there is only a week old so I would think it's still useful but maybe not.

Lights are still off at this hour so we will see if the clams are any happier for the new water or not.


Also, I did check for snails on the clams, even after lights out, and couldn't see anything to suggest its snails.

Guess the waiting game begins and I'll keep up the water changes. It's weird, I have never had nitrate issues...ever...always rock solid. So something has changed, but what? Nothing dead that I can tell and the clean up crew is always active and always cleans their plates. Weird.

 

[jagermeister]

I'd probably hold off on another water change and wouldn't worry about those nitrate levels too much as clams can thrive in high nutrient systems. I really don't think the nitrates have anything to do with your clams closing up.

As far as where the nitrates are coming from, how old is your tank and do you have any means for nitrate export such as harvesting macro algae? Activated carbon will not significantly remove nitrates. What about your top off water. You may want to check your ro filters if you use one.

Also clams like stability when it comes to pH, calcium, and alkalinity. Large swings in those parameters may cause them to close up and not look so hot. Sounds like maybe your pH is fluctuating? They also don't like a huge amount of current.

When checking for pyramid snails, be sure to lift the clam and check the underside near the byssal opening as that's where the majority of them will be.

Hopefully someone else will chime in with some advice but for now I'd keep an eye on your blenny, check your pH, alkalinity, and calcium each day to see if they're relatively stable, and check for pyramid snails at night on the underside of the clam.

 

[ryan820]

Ok so I did check under the clam that would let me lift, as the maxima is firmly attached to his rock, and no snails or anything resembling a snail. I'll of course keep checking on that.

I retested the water this morning, ammonia is zero and for the first time ever with this tank the trites are elevated and the trates are back up to 20 ppm. Even if it does affect the clams, I have SPS to consider. So I think I'd like to keep at the water changes for that reason alone.

The tank is several years old and has been under my care for 9 months now.

I do use ro di and have a TDS meter that reads zero on the output water...I guess it could be faultily but have no reason to suspect it.

I don't have any macro algae...no sump... It's in the plans but the setup doesn't allow for one yet until I work out a basement arrangement. I suppose there are other algaes that could grow in tank but I have none right now. I do need to get some though, makes sense to lwpet nutrients get bound up in those instead of massive water changes.

Ok so I think the major factor occurring here may be the ph. Last night after the water change, it was up at 8.2 and now it's 7.8 again. Boooooo. I can't test for alk right now.

Would a ph buffer offer releif to the tank until I can get this under control?

 

[ryan820]

Ok so I did check under the clam that would let me lift, as the maxima is firmly attached to his rock, and no snails or anything resembling a snail. I'll of course keep checking on that.

I retested the water this morning, ammonia is zero and for the first time ever with this tank the trites are elevated and the trates are back up to 20 ppm. Even if it does affect the clams, I have SPS to consider. So I think I'd like to keep at the water changes for that reason alone.

The tank is several years old and has been under my care for 9 months now.

I do use ro di and have a TDS meter that reads zero on the output water...I guess it could be faultily but have no reason to suspect it.

I don't have any macro algae...no sump... It's in the plans but the setup doesn't allow for one yet until I work out a basement arrangement. I suppose there are other algaes that could grow in tank but I have none right now. I do need to get some though, makes sense to lwpet nutrients get bound up in those instead of massive water changes.

Ok so I think the major factor occurring here may be the ph. Last night after the water change, it was up at 8.2 and now it's 7.8 again. Boooooo. I can't test for alk right now.

Would a ph buffer offer releif to the tank until I can get this under control?

 

[J&A Timberlake]

In an effort to save you from trying to fix what isn't broken, PH should fluctuate in a system daily. Lower in the morning, higher in the evening. Mine has for years and it's a natural occurrence from the sun's (our lights) effects on the set up. 8.1 in the morning and 8.3 - 8.4 at night every day for several years now in my tanks. 0 effect on corals. I don't think the PH swing is your issue. Though I do think your PH is a bit low for a saltwater set up. Also, just a reminder; you should be doing your water test at the same time of day each time you do them. This way they aren't different based merely on the daily cycle of change. Sorry I don't have an alternate suggestion for you though. Best of luck and I hope you find the issue soon.

some quotes:
"Saltwater fish prefer an alkaline pH of 8.0 or above."
"Keep in mind that pH is not static, it changes over time, in fact it even changes over the course of a single day. Typically it drops at night and rises during the daytime. The pH will change as new fish are added or removed, as water is added or changed, and as the biological processes change in the tank." - About.com

"Daily fluctuations in pH can be expected based on the day/night cycle. At night, while plants stop taking in CO2 for photosynthesis, animals are still producing CO2 and both plants and animals use O2 at night. The excess CO2 released into the water combines with water molecules to become carbonic acid, lowering the pH. Water hardness is a large factor in daily fluctuation of pH: hard water---usually with calcium and magnesium in solution---will show more stable pH due to the high buffering capacity of the water alkalinity, where soft water---with low alkalinity" - ehow.com

there are many other informative articles on daily PH fluctuation at this Google search link:
http://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...w.&fp=1da4617bb3453d18&ion=1&biw=1007&bih=510

 

[ryan820]

Thank yo for the information. I had forgotten that pH will change over a period of time. It makes sense as the times my pH has tested low has been before lights on. When I tested last night, lights on, it was well into the 8 range.

I still have concerns over the nitrate issue...I'm amazed how much higher it is than I'm use to seeing. I'm still unaware of what may be the cause of this.


So based on my water parameters, it seems no one is overly concerned about their quality, or at least, they are not the issue with the clams.

My croceas clam, now with the lights on, has opened up to what I would guess is about 75% or more...much much better than the past two days. The difference today than yesterday? I moved it higher in the tank, off the bed. The water flow doesn't seem any different.

The maxima is clinging to the rock for dear life and though it's slightly open today, no real improvement.

I'm off to do another water change.

 

[lorilynne]

Hi Ryan!

The times my (crocea) clam has closed, I had low alkalinity, or degrading lighting.

I'd suggest picking up an alk test... (and take a water sample to an LFS to see if they jive with your test kit results...)
My hunch is that your alk is low...

Lori

 

[ryan820]

Lori I had ca alk and mag tests in my BRS order and by th time I actually checked out, they were out of stock! Of course, I was distracted for several hours for that to happen, but gees! If I have time I may run to GBR or similar and pick up the tests locally.

You still having alk issues with your tank?

 

[ryan820]

Also, new bulbs are on their way! So I'll get those Monday and begin replacing bulbs one every few days.

 

[Wicked Color]

Do the clams react to you shadowing them? (close tight)
Do you dose kalkwasser?

 

[ryan820]

Do the clams react to you shadowing them? (close tight)
Do you dose kalkwasser?

Wicked I thought of dosing but I am just so unsure of how to do it and the understanding behind it.

As for whether or not they respond, yes, very much still. I haven't notices any decrease in light change or tactile sensitivity...at least not yet.

Haven't been home all day so it will be nice to if they have improved or not. I have some coral buidler that it supposed to help with the alk, and I added a fraction of what the recommended amount is suppose to be... Not sure why I bothered but I guess I hoped it would at least balance the alk a bit. I will test when I get home.

Wicked if you can give me a crash course of the kalk I'm willing to try. How to make it, dose it etc.

 

[Wicked Color]

I use a teaspoon in 5 gallons of freshwater, lasts me all week long in my 100+ gal system, just use very little at first.
Also keep an eye on the predation possibility......

 

[ryan820]

Update

I moved my croceas clam higher in my tank and he is mostly open but still not 100%. my maxima is still mostly closed. I have done about a 75% water change and my nitrates are still higher than I'm used to, but not bad either. Salinity, temp and the rest of my parameters seem in order though I am waiting on my alk test! I may just take it to a local fish store to have it checked. I get new bulbs tomorrow from my BRS order so I hope to see if that improves the maxima and croceas clams dispositions.

One thing I noticed, my maxima is very responsive to light...fish swimming by etc. So much so that my blenny, who constantly swims over it, will cause it to close. I tried removing the clam and placing it outside of the blenny's domain, but it refuses to let go of the rock! In fact, when I tug on it, it pulls even harder! The clam isn't looking great but so far, it's certainly putting up a fight. Also, checked again for pyramid snails and still see no sign. I have a monti cap on standby if it ever let's go of the rock, as I read montis will kill off the pyramid snails.


Plan on beginning to dose my tank soon but need to get pickling lime. Hoping something along these lines will turn my clams frown up side down!

 

[Wicked Color]

If the clam is footed that is a good sign, DO NOT pull on them after the footing takes place, damaging the tendrils is super bad for the clam.
New bulbs may help, but are likely not the answer as this is going to increase the time it takes for them to photo-acclimate, if they are opening at all, the best bet is good water conditions, and stability.
The key tests are going to be PH, and Alk as you are doing so many water changes and there is plenty of mag and Ca in fresh salt mixtures.
Its probably not pyramid snails.
Try not to stress them by touching them, temp changes, or being out of the water at all.

 

[ryan820]

Nope, I had no intentions of yanking him off the rock once I gave that initial tug...the clam is firmly in place. I hope my water quality improves something for this clam...again, the croceas seems much better but it's the maxima I'm keeping my eye on. I am still confused as to why one day the clam is fully open and within the same day, it's closed almost completely. Just seems weird that things could go that sour with the water that quickly...I would have thought it would close slowly show signs of being unhappy before shutting up almost completely.

Would you recommend dosing the tank using the method discussed in the article on the link I posted?

The good thing is, all of my SPS look great right now...LPS too....even my zoos are putting on a great show...just these effing clams!

 

[ryan820]

Clam still most closed but still responding to light changes etc.

 

[ryan820]

Here are my clams as of tonight...taken with a cell phone cam.

Maxima in the center all closed up.

Croceas...looking a lot better than the maxima but still not totally open.

 

[Wicked Color]

I would get it away from those mushrooms.