Opinions on First Fish

[oatyfruitybar]

So my saltwater display and quarantine tanks have been running for a while now, and I'm considering fish for the first time. I've been thinking about a goby of some sort, but I've heard mixed reviews on them, and so I wanted to put the question out there and ask what people would recommend for a starting fish.

I'm open to any suggestion as long as the fish you recommend will be invertebrate safe. Also, I'm not really into damsels as they get aggressive when they get bigger and I'm not too impressed with how they look, but if someone here is a damsel aficionado and cares to make a convincing argument for them I'm willing to listen.

Any thoughts on the topic would be welcome.

 

[Cake_Boss]

How I'd go about choosing my first fish(es) is to make a list of fish that I like aesthetically. Then I'd find the info as to their aggressiveness/food requirements/tank size/max length. A real easy way to find this is The New Marine Aquarium by Michael Paletta(sp). He generalizes the categories fairly well, but there are exceptions of course. If nothing else, it's a god starting point. I have the book, if I can find it I'll send you the page.

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[oatyfruitybar]

Sure that makes sense. My problem is that most of the fish I like aesthetically are too big for my aquarium lol. The only fish I really have my heart set on are a pair of black clownfish, but I know that they're pretty aggressive and should be added after less territorial fish. I was considering a sleeper goby of some sort, but have some reservations because if they dig too much I'm going to have sand everywhere in the tank. So maybe a clown goby would be a better choice? Also was thinking about a royal gramma just for variety's sake. I've been looking at lots of species, but they all seem like they get way too big.

 

[andyrm66]

Black clowns were the first fish I added, never had a problem. I also like a yellow watchman/pistol pair. Blye eyed/threadfin cardinals are cool as well. This is for a 20 correct? I had one of these in my 14 gallon cube. THey are cool IMO. http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=139026
Add them first as they are somewhat skittish. The ones I posted are "real" firefish.

These would be cool I think, with a pair of black clowns, maybe one threadfin, and a watchman pistol pair. http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=138776

Tailspot blennys are cool. Beware though, super peacefull until I added 2 threadfins' they were dead in 12 hrs, due to non stop a holeness from the tailspot.

 

[andyrm66]

ORA Mandrin?

 

[oatyfruitybar]

Yes, I have a 20. I thought mandarins were pretty cool, but they seem to require a lot of babying and special care. The firefish look really cool though. I looked up the threadfin cardinals and they looked alright, but looking at other cardinals http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+26+79&pcatid=79 Flame Cardinals look pretty awesome too. I would just be concerned about mixing it with the clownfish. Maybe since I only have a 20 gallon I shouldn't put more than one species of aggressive fish in?

As for watchmen, I do want one of those and I'm waiting for one of my LFS's to have them. They all have clown gobies now, but I have the understanding that I'm looking for fish named watchman/sleeper gobies, not clowns, unless I'm mistaken.

Thank you for the suggestion of the firefish though. They're super pretty and I think I may just get one.

 

[Jfaiii]

firefish are good but beware that they are slower eaters. I had one that died because it couldn't compete with my 6 line wrasse and my clown fish for food. Neon gobys are awesome little fish as well and they are a cleaner fish so they will clean its tank mates when you get more fish! If you are in fort collins and havent been there Alpine koi and homescapes on mulberry has a bunch of good beginner saltwater fish!

 

[oatyfruitybar]

Hmm... that's good to know. Maybe if I fed the clown fish first in one part of the tank and the firefish second in another part?

Yes, I biked over to Alpine Koi and they seem to have a reasonable selection. A bit expensive, but all in all it wasn't bad.

So if I wanted to put in a firefish, a pair of clowns, a flame cardinal, and a watchman goby or neon gobies of some sort in what order should they go? I know it's peaceful species first, aggressive after but between the gobies and the firefish, and the cardinal and the clowns, which should go first in order to cause the fewest fights?

 

[Cake_Boss]

firefish, a pair of clowns, a flame cardinal, and a watchman goby or neon gobies

not familiar with flame cardinal. make sure you have a cover of some sort if you get firefish, they tend to jump.
IMO: 1) firefish 2) cardinals 3) goby 4) clowns.

I waited a few months between the additions. Really, there are ways to add in whatever order you want, this way minimizes aggression. KIM your fish:water ratio and you'll be fine.

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[oatyfruitybar]

Actually I'll probably get a ruby cardinal instead - still bright red but not as aggressive.

About fish:water ratios, the rule of thumb for freshwater is an inch of fish to gallon of water (although I've successfully broken this repeatedly), and I've heard varying things about salt water. Any opinions on that?

Though if the rule is about the same, 2 clowns should be 6 - 8 inches, firefish should be 2-3, cardinal should be 3-4, watchman goby 3, neon gobies 2 inches each. Therefore total inches should be 14 - 19 inches of fish, acceptable for 20 gallon if following 1 gallon = 1 inch rule.

 

[Cake_Boss]

The ratio changes, depending on filtration. I was using 1" fish:3" water. Think I'll let others chime in on their ratios.

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[Jfaiii]

IMO there really is no set ratio in saltwater. As Rockys_Pride said it depends on a bunch of stuff including amount of live rock, filtration, protein skimmer, water flow, water changes, ect. What I do and has worked best is just add one fish at a time and keep a close eye on your water quality, IMHO as long as your water quality remains stable and good then you are fine. However, if any of your parameters spike or elevate stop adding fish and wait to see if the tank will adapt. Make sure you leave plenty of time between fish especially in the beginning.

 

[Jfaiii]

Also I would add them in this order. 1: firefish 2: goby 3: cardinals 4: clowns

 

[andyrm66]

I see no issue with what others have said for adding in order. Honestly, I would add the fire fish first, but really I wouldnt have any issue what so ever adding all at the same time or complete reverse order. The only fish I havent had in your list is a ruby red cardinal. I have had PJ and threadfin and there were very docile.

None of those fish are piggy eaters, watch how much you feed, maybe every other day would be good. Are you going to treat in a hospital tank before adding to your dt?
Do you have a skimmer? What about mechanical filters?

 

[oatyfruitybar]

Yes, I have a quarantine tank ready to go, and was going to dip in fresh water/methylene blue before putting them into quarantine and treating them with copper for 3 weeks before they get to go into the display.

I have an AquaC Remora skimmer and a Tetra power filter rated for 30-40 gallons, for biological filter I have 30+lbs of live rock and sand. My water quality has been good for some time after a mini cycle right after I put the rock in, and I have a small clean up crew. No real algae problems, a bit of hair and red algae but it's not out of control.

I suppose I'll look into getting a firefish then, see what my LFS's have or if I can have them order it. I know I don't get a X-day guarantee if I don't order it directly to my house but shipping costs are prohibitively high.

 

[Cake_Boss]

One qt procedure at a time brah. Qt stresses the fish. Do whatever you think is necessary, but research the crap out of it and ask here or other sites, makes no difference to me.

Where in FOCO are you? Crusty is by CSU and successfully rode his bike to and from D&G with a firefish in his backpack in the cold, just don't run a stop sign on your bike lol.

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[oatyfruitybar]

I've been doing reading about freshwater dips, which are pretty short... it seems like a good process to try and get parasites off the fish before you even put them in the quarantine tank. I suppose I don't really know since I haven't done this with fish before but it seems like it might be worth a shot.

I'm up in the north part of town, just west of CSU's campus. I could probably bike to either D&G or Alpine Koi to get a fish and keep it inside my winter jacket, but I'd rather either wait until the weather is better or try and hitch a ride with a friend. Or maybe take the bus. lol I'm afraid I'm occasionally a pretty irresponsible biker, but I try to obey traffic signs. I was thinking about just ordering through Petco though, since they're closer and cheaper. I know that ordering fish through them might be a risky proposition, but it's one I have to consider so I don't break the bank.

 

[Jfaiii]

Good luck getting your first fish. I saw about a dozen firefish at D&G about 2 days ago fyi. you could also check out great white aquatics as they are a little closer to where you are at.

 

[oatyfruitybar]

Awesome. Thank you for the advice.

 

[Wicked Color]

I always do a hearty coral first, like big green palys, this way, when they open you know everything is good, and it wont die nearly as quickly as a fish could, giving you time to correct the problem, or remove the animal before doing any permanent damage.
I happen to have such a beast, waiting here, for you, free of charge!!