Sick of ich, need help what is going wrong.

dirtefish

dirtefish

Angel Fish
#1
#1
Many months ago I lost nearly all my fish to ich. After everything died off due to my failed hypo sal treatment I kept my two surviving fish that had no signs of ich in a observation temporary home for about 3 months while I ran my DT fallow. The hospital tank was torn down cleaned and left dry for about two months before resetting it up as a qt.
So total amount of time my DT had no fish in it was about 3 months. After that time I added my chromis and damsel back in, they did fine and are still fine.

So Getting brave again several weeks ago I got a new rabbit fish and and a klein butterfly. Both went into observation for 3 weeks and did great they ate well and showed no signs of ich.
I added them to my DT a week ago, and the butterfly as of today is showing what I belive is signs of ich. foxfacerabbit appears clean, and no troubled breathing. I will be trapping them and putting em into treatment tomorrow morning.

This is my problem I have no idea what else to do to prevent ich. My params are as follows
Salinity: 1.025
PH Range: 8.1
Temp Range: 79
Alkalinity: 2.5
Calcium: no supplements added, not testing
Magnesium: same
Nitrate: 10ppm pre water change less than 5 after
Phosphate: .03 (setting up a reactor this week)
Ammonia 0

The tank is a 100g 4ft with 3 sets of 65w pc
30g sump/fug with an ASM g1x skimmer some live rock and chaeto growing
with standard section holding return pumps and heaters.
3 koralia 1650 gph power heads in the tank
and 1 cheapo cant remember the brand in the sump helping spin the chaeto.

So my first set of fish I screwed up and didnt qt and they all died. I learned my lesson ran my tank fallow for months and now even after a qt my fish are showing signs of ich again, yet the single chromis and damsel that outlasted the last outbreak are fine.

I am very close to completely stepping away from having fish in my tank if I cant remedy this and prevent it with any new additions.

My fish came from an LFS the foxface was there for about 3 weeks before my purchase and the butterfly less than 2 weeks, which I got a bs answer first and after asking the one person there i trust said less than 2 weeks.

So what am I doing wrong here? Any help would be appreciated, im trapping and getting a copper kit tomorrow to treat my fishs. But Im seriously depressed over this.
 
Tripple T

Tripple T

Anthias
#2
#2
I hate ich and have dealt with it alot as well. Anymore to me it's just pain but not a killer. Uv sterilizer and metranirozole mixed in with the food and focus mixed in as well should keep fish alive. Remember continue treatment for 5 weeks after last symptoms.
 
dirtefish

dirtefish

Angel Fish
#3
#3
For the UV do you recommend continuous use on my dt or just on my hospital tank. And as far as treatment goes metranirozolei have googled and am only coming up with a slightly different spelling which is an antibiotic treatment? Do you have a link on treating this way? I had only heard of copper treatment and hypo salinity.
So is the medication used in conjunction with a copper treatment or separate?
 
B

bigfoot610

Blenny
#4
#4
i have used a product called iirc rid ich it was made by amquel and it is reef safe it is made from quinilone root i used it in my dt and had no ill effects on corals
 
N

nadking

Anthias
#6
#6
I have had no success with the "no ich" medicine, it is suppose to be reef safe as well. The best remedy I have found is getting rid of the stressor whether it is another fish or tank params and then feeding a nice varied diet. I have also tried soaking food in ginger root with no ill effects but have no real evidence to say it was how my fish recovered.
 
dirtefish

dirtefish

Angel Fish
#7
#7
There diet is decent and varied spectrum flake with garlic, frozen veg cube and meat cube, as well as some sea weed clipped in the tank as a treat.
The fish eat very well, and are not acting stressed. Out of any of my posted info can u help pick out a stress factor? The two fish affected are buddies, the water params are stable I just am frustrated and am not sure how to improve the quality of life for my fish any further. I looked up the medication route and it seems like that may be my best bet is combining the metza medication focus and a UV sterilizer.
My big concern is despite all the prep and running a fallow tank as well as a good long qt with no symptoms the fish still ended up with ich.
I just want to get through this treatment and figure how to deter or avoid it in the future.
Begining to really distrust my lfs, the guy is a dick and this is about the 4th batch of fish between fresh and salt that I have had to deal with parasites or disease. I feel like I get lied to every time I go in there at this point.
 
Tripple T

Tripple T

Anthias
#8
#8
Yes metronitozole is an antibiotic but more importantly it is an anti protozoan. It is used mainly to treat gheardia. ( sorry for spelling. My phone does its own thing). When u google it you will get an array of varying responses on wether it works. It does I promise. U must use focus which is sold at most lfs, mixed in with the food and metronitozole. I dose the food quite heavily with both and add garlic so the fish will still eat it. Within a few days u will notice the ich becoming less numerous on ur fish. Uv is key as well. Make sure ur pump isn't pushing water through ur uv too fast. If it does it won't kill protozoans. Pm me if u want more info. If u want to call me IDE be happy to explain more :)
 
N

nadking

Anthias
#9
#9
Do you still have the damsel? IMO the reason that those two are fine is because the damsel may be the problem. The chromis is in the damsel family but not nearly as mean. The damsel however can be really stressing to new fish, even if you do not see it attacking it the damsel can torment fish to the point where they don't allow them to eat in peace.
 
Tripple T

Tripple T

Anthias
#10
#10
Btw many top biologists believe that ich persists in the aquarium environment and just waits for fish to become stressed to have an outbreak.
 
dirtefish

dirtefish

Angel Fish
#11
#11
cant sleep.
And T I am starting to agree with that theory about ich. Its kind of hard to understand how this hasnt been proven or disproven either way though.
Its sort of odd that as far as people take this hobby something that is so damaging and common hasnt been scienced out of the hobby.

I know those that run close to perfect tanks dont deal with this nearly as much, but only being in the hobby for a year I make mistakes. I just hope my mistakes arent causing the stress allowing ich to outbreak.

The idea about the damsel being the stresser is plausible, but mine is a pansy. The first day the others were introduced she started showing his ***. When introducing em I compulsively watch the tank with just my blues running. The rabbit fish was his first target and he knocked back on the damsel and took his place in my largest cove. The buttefly stayed towards the front of the tank just free swimming until the damsel made a play on him as well. Once again he got put in check. I know damsels can be annoying, but I just dont see it in this scenario. I spend a lot of time just watching my tank. And I watch every time I feed em since it is a fun time to watch em racing to eat. I cant say I have ever seen that damsel even attempt to mess with either fish since the first intro. Thats not to say it hasnt happened, but I have seen no evidence. No actions, no wounds, not even much interaction. Since the fox and the butterlfy are buddies they mostly stick together in the coves, while the chromis and damsel hang out together in the top of the rock work.

Well going to try and sleep gotta get up early and drive in the ugly *** snow thats falling.

Thank you again to all that are posting, if anyone else things of something or sees a problem with my params or set up or anything please feel free to educate me.
 
Wicked Color

Wicked Color

Tiger Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#12
#12
You will find many opinions about this, I hope you find an approach that works for you, and you keep with it!!
 
R

robert.talarico

Tang
M.A.S.C Club Member
#13
#13
I used to have problems with ich. I've never seen it scientifically proven but imo the fluctuation of temperature in my tank was causing my ich. Ich is always in your tank it is just dormant, from what I've been told. The oxygen in the water changes as your ppt and temperature changes. I strongly believe that ich becomes active when these things fluctuate. As far as treatment I wouldn't use any medication I would just drop your salt gravity down to .011 in your hospital tank. As far as getting rid of the cause, Invest in a good heater. Especially with this change of weather/temperature we've been having.
 
Off The Deep End

Off The Deep End

Reef Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#14
#14
Do you have a cleaner shrimp? I can watch my cleaner shrimp cleaning my fish all the time, not that it will fix the root of the problem but it may help your fish fight back easier. Also your nitrates at 10 could be contributing to the stress, just a thought. I have also used Rid Ick in the past with good results and no losses in coral. HTH
 
T

that0neguy1126

Registered Users
M.A.S.C Club Member
#15
#15
Cleaner shrimp will not get rid of MI. Also the lifecycle of MI can last as long as 72 days. Usually the lifecycle is only 24 days, with 60 days covering 99.9% of cases.

The best thing to do would be to QT longer.

The only time a human can actually see signs of MI is when the parasites have already burrowed into the fish and are "pregnant" and ready to release cyst's back into the water.
 
dirtefish

dirtefish

Angel Fish
#17
#17
Temps in my tank for the most part stay at 78.5, i have seen it bounce up or down by .5 would that be enough swing to be causing the issue? I have 2 150w heaters in the sump and none in the DT. I had originally started with a 300w monster of a heater in the dt, but it would swing up to 2 degrees down at night, and up 2-3 during the day.
Its been months since I had the old heater set up and have had pretty consistent temps.

Checking online now for any local seller for metro/focus so i can begin treatment today. Anyone know a source in the springs?
 
Off The Deep End

Off The Deep End

Reef Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#18
#18
that0neguy1126;122558 said:
Cleaner shrimp will not get rid of MI. Also the lifecycle of MI can last as long as 72 days. Usually the lifecycle is only 24 days, with 60 days covering 99.9% of cases.

The best thing to do would be to QT longer.

The only time a human can actually see signs of MI is when the parasites have already burrowed into the fish and are "pregnant" and ready to release cyst's back into the water.
Click to expand...

I never said it would get rid of MI, I clearly stated that he will have to get to the root of the problem and that a cleaner shrimp will help to keep his fish alive longer than without.
 
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