Tank start up...noobie questions!!

[ShelbyJK500]

Okay all...I've done tons of reading and research and have my foot in the door with my 28g Nano up and running smoothly. NOW...I'm about to start up my 110g. I've never started from scratch before.

My initial start-up questions, mostly relating to sand, rock and cycling. I'm looking for opinions and feedback from you all...the experienced. Not the differing opinions I hear at LFS's and excerpts from books.

Here is/was my initial plan of action. I have a good amount of dry rock and may try to get some more. I'm going to create structures and epoxy it all securely. Place the structures and acquire live sand to about 2-3" bed depth, in order to seed all the dry rock. I was also planning on getting about 10lbs of live rock from Elite to assist with seeding as well. I'd also have macro and live sand in a refugium setup.

Concerns/Goals:
I've read and researched and it's been explained to me that if you start with dry rock and seed it with sand, you won't have any issues with getting hitchhikers. Basically anything that you end up with in the tank, you put there. So, using proper QT processes...pests should never be an issue.

Questions:
1) Do I still have the possibility of getting unwanted hitchhikers (bristle's, stars, mantis, aptasia, etc) from live sand alone, or is this solely a live rock issue?

2) Is it possible to have almost guaranteed pest free live rock. Elite, did not guarantee, but stated their rock has been cured and such so that no unwanted pests would be hitchhiking. Is this possible?

3) If I don't use any live rock, will it take forever to seed dry rock with just sand?

4) How much light, if any for that matter, is needed when cycling?? If none or very little is required, wouldn't that help with limiting nuisance algae from springing up?

Thanks everyone! Looking forward to the feedback. I'm picking up the rest of my equipment to finish the build (hopefully), tomorrow. Build thread up soon...

 

[Cherub]

lol don't call bristles unwanted in this forum. They'll lynch you!

 

[ShelbyJK500]

lol don't call bristles unwanted in this forum. They'll lynch you!

LOL...I know that's old school conventional "wisdom" that talks about bristle's so harshly. Either way, I have no opinion on the matter yet, because i'm new!!

Being new, I want to be proactive and not reactive toward any common issues. It just seems very apparent that many issues that reefers deal with come from live rock, or poor QT (if any) procedures.

 

[Cherub]

in regard to your live rock question it doesn't take a lot of live rock to seed a tank. If you're not in a hurry you can just put a chunk in the new tank from your other tank and it will seed the rest. Of course the more you use the faster it goes. Also during initial cycling people tend to not use light to avoid algae blooms.

 

[djkms]

Concerns/Goals:
I've read and researched and it's been explained to me that if you start with dry rock and seed it with sand, you won't have any issues with getting hitchhikers. Basically anything that you end up with in the tank, you put there. So, using proper QT processes...pests should never be an issue
. Unless you quarantine EVERYTHING that is going into your tank for months, yes months trying not to get hitchhikers in your is futile. Even almost a year later I am finding new stuff in my tank, my last system I was finding new stuff the whole time it was setup. IMO the more diversity in your system the better and more stable. Pests suck yes but we all get them, its just part of the hobby

Questions:
1) Do I still have the possibility of getting unwanted hitchhikers (bristle's, stars, mantis, aptasia, etc) from live sand alone, or is this solely a live rock issue?
A "pest" can come in on anything not just rock or sand. A snails shell, a frag plug, anything

2) Is it possible to have almost guaranteed pest free live rock. Elite, did not guarantee, but stated their rock has been cured and such so that no unwanted pests would be hitchhiking. Is this possible?
Not possible IMO
3) If I don't use any live rock, will it take forever to seed dry rock with just sand?
Trust me, diversity is good, get live rock

4) How much light, if any for that matter, is needed when cycling?? If none or very little is required, wouldn't that help with limiting nuisance algae from springing up?
I cycled my tank with 2 strip lights - probably not needed but diversity is good and some animals need light. No matter what you do you will probably go through the normal nuissance algae cycle and its good for the tank, helps you understand how the system works and how to deal with problems, again just IMO.
Thanks everyone! Looking forward to the feedback. I'm picking up the rest of my equipment to finish the build (hopefully), tomorrow. Build thread up soon...

..

 

[SAZAMA]

is all the rock your gonna use dry man-made rock? or was it live at one point? some of these creatures are zombies and will come back from years without water.and yes you can still get hitchhikers from sand that's part of seeding with sand, and IMO is not all that bad. Good luck and you're very correct to use caution with what goes in it.

 

[KhensuRa]

I agree with what DJKMS said. Live rock is your best bet, plus that is one of the great things in this hobby is seeing the new life in your tank. Even though there is a small percentage that you might get nasty pest. You will enjoy seeing all the life from the live sand and live rock you put in your tank.

 

[chrislorentz]

I would say Kris hit the nail right on the head. The only thing I would say different is lights IMO you need no lights when cycling. Anything in there that is going to need light will get enough ambient light from the room. I would recommend not going into the tank build thinking you will never get pests, go into it planning for them and hot to prevent them. Stock to help prevent any possible spread of anything introduced. Any time I put a new rock in my tank my melanarus, 6 line and purple tang are on it like white on rice picking off what ever it is that they like. I have peppermints to control any aptasia that may find its way in. My coral banded shrimp along with my 6 line keep the bristle worm population in check. That is how I approach my glass box of fun. Is it the correct way probably not, I can however say in the 5 or so years I have been into saltwater (no very long) I have had no major outbreaks that way. Not yet at least.

 

[SteveT]

100% agree with Kris and the others. 80% (pulled that out of my ***, who knows. but a majority anyway) of the micro fauna and hitchhikers you get from live sand and rock are going to be beneficial to the biodiversity of your tank. The best way to deal with pests is to expect them. Make sure to scour your tank at least once a day looking very closely at all the rock and sand (I find this incredibly interesting myself finding all the little creatures in the tank, not just looking for pests) try to identify everything, if you don't know what it is Google it, if its a known pest take immediate action to get rid of it. The only thing you can do on the purchase side is to look carefully in the tank its being sold out of for the obvious offenders aptasia, coral eating flatworms etc. As much as possible I like to do what Chrislorentz suggested and as long as your tank-mates will be compatible try to find the natural predators for whatever pest you may have trouble with. As with a lot of things with this hobby I am of the opinion of keeping things as natural and close to the ocean as possible.

 

[dv3]

yes like the others said you want the biodiversity that comes with the hitchhikers ...you have to to keep an eye out for pests and control them ...one other think last time i was at elite (and its been a while) they didn't have any live rock with coralline on it so besides what you get from them you may want to trade a local reefer a piece of your dry rock for a piece of their coralline cover rock

you might also look into the various ways possible to speed up your cycle

 

[Wicked Color]

yessir, tell ya what.

 

[ShelbyJK500]

You all ROCK in this community! Thanks to everyone for taking some time to help steer me in the right direction. I should note a sterile tank would not be successful, nor fun I think. I know some hitchhikers and pests might come my way...but I want to be proactive and not reactive. I was more on the same page with "chrislorentz"...in that I would plan to get the "natural" solutions to common problems. I.E...sea hare for hair algae, peppermints or CBButterfly for aptasia, 6 line or arrow crab for bristles, etc.

I just don't want to find myself in too many battles too soon! If I can go 5 years like chrislorentz without too many issues, I'll be a much happier hobbiest. I am here to learn though and like with any hobby, mistakes will be made, issues will arise and learning opportunities will follow.

is all the rock your gonna use dry man-made rock? or was it live at one point? some of these creatures are zombies and will come back from years without water.and yes you can still get hitchhikers from sand that's part of seeding with sand, and IMO is not all that bad. Good luck and you're very correct to use caution with what goes in it.

MOST of the rock I have currently is dry rock. I did just re-aquascape my Nano and pulled out some rock...so I have probably 10-15lbs of live rock pieces in a bucket with powerhead and heat going. I figured this will go in my fuge with sand. Would it be better in the DT with the dry rock?? I guess I can always get another 10lbs or so from Elite or something either way.

So what can you get from sand? I wasn't thinking you would get the bigger things, but possibly some bristle's?? Just curious what might be acquired through sand.

I would say Kris hit the nail right on the head. The only thing I would say different is lights IMO you need no lights when cycling. Anything in there that is going to need light will get enough ambient light from the room. I would recommend not going into the tank build thinking you will never get pests, go into it planning for them and hot to prevent them. Stock to help prevent any possible spread of anything introduced. Any time I put a new rock in my tank my melanarus, 6 line and purple tang are on it like white on rice picking off what ever it is that they like. I have peppermints to control any aptasia that may find its way in. My coral banded shrimp along with my 6 line keep the bristle worm population in check. That is how I approach my glass box of fun. Is it the correct way probably not, I can however say in the 5 or so years I have been into saltwater (no very long) I have had no major outbreaks that way. Not yet at least.

See above...

 

[mikejrice]

1) Do I still have the possibility of getting unwanted hitchhikers (bristle's, stars, mantis, aptasia, etc) from live sand alone, or is this solely a live rock issue?

There's always the possibility of getting just about anything from any object that has been in a marine system or the ocean before.

2) Is it possible to have almost guaranteed pest free live rock. Elite, did not guarantee, but stated their rock has been cured and such so that no unwanted pests would be hitchhiking. Is this possible?

It is possible to have ALMOST guaranteed, but the biggest rule of marine systems is nothing is guaranteed. We take steps to be sure that no large creatures are going to make it into our rock tank, but all live rock carries spores of different creatures that may become active at any time. Some tanks go years without seeing a creature that was never added.

3) If I don't use any live rock, will it take forever to seed dry rock with just sand?

This depends on what you mean by "seed." It is actually possible to cycle a marine system and create live rock without using an ounce of anything from the ocean. In my opinion, the term live rock refers only to the bacterial colonies within the rock that process ammonia and nitrite. If rock that has never touched salt water is placed in a fresh salt water tank along with something to create some ammonia, bacteria will bloom to process these nutrients, and the rock will come alive. It always amazes me to think about! If by live rock you mean rock with ocean critters on it, then it will take awhile to seed from the live sand because it may take quite awhile for the spores in the sand to become active again.

4) How much light, if any for that matter, is needed when cycling?? If none or very little is required, wouldn't that help with limiting nuisance algae from springing up?

Definitely no light.

So what can you get from sand? I wasn't thinking you would get the bigger things, but possibly some bristle's?? Just curious what might be acquired through sand.

You can get just about anything really. Spores can remain dormant for years in some cases, and right when water conditions are right bloom out with all kinds of life. I seeded a tank for my mother with rock I've owned for years and within a month she had tons of upside down jellyfish roaming her tank. I've never seen a single one in my system.