Well my fish have ich, again.

[robert.talarico]

It seems like almost every year around this time my tank gets infected with ich. I always quarantine my fish. Last year I was able to set up a hospital tank where I did the hypo salinity treatment. I saved 2 out of my 10 fish. This year I think I have caught it too late. I feel like I won't be buying fish again after this. Anything should know about a COWLF tank? (Corals only with little fish) My bio load will obviously change. Is this going to affect anything? Give me reasons to feed my corals daily

 

[daverf]

that...sucks...

can't comment on a COWLF tank...but what are the "little fish" you plan to keep around? and, are you going to run fallow (again) after this ordeal?

you could plan fish that have high natural resistance after running (or re-running) fallow. for example, rabbitfish/foxface and mandarin gobies are very highly ich resistant and almost never die. whereas some fish have very poor natural ability to resist (thereby becoming an ich population culture if other tank conditions (environment/stress) give rise to an infestation...causing a perfect storm for wiping out a tank). Tangs are about the worst, butterflies and angels also fare poorly. There are lots of fish in the middle of the spectrum that likely won't go down unless housed with fish that have a poor natural resistance that happen to cause an infested tank.

Also just be careful about where you buy your fish and how long the store (and you) QT...since you are dealing with a known/recurrent problem in your tank. I would not by anywhere that doesn't QT/treat incoming fish...I would not QT for less than a month...I would not buy any more fish unless your tank is fallow (maybe 2 months to be safe)...etc.

 

[Ahhshoot]

I just recently went through this so I feel your pain. I managed to save 3 out of my 10 to 12 fish. I will agree with Dave that rabbitfish/foxface do have a high tolerance for ick, he was one of the 3 to survive. All I can say is don't get discouraged, try to keep a positive attitude about it. That's what I did and I'm slowly restocking my 180 gallon take now.

 

[Munch]

I keep telling myself I need to add some fish to my tank, and each time I see one of these posts, it makes me cringe. Ick sucks.

 

[daverf]

I keep telling myself I need to add some fish to my tank, and each time I see one of these posts, it makes me cringe. Ick sucks.

You have little to worry about if you QT! And if you're super cautious or worried, just buy from a place that QTs before you do your own QT. Probably 99.9% prevention.

I bet all of us who waste all this time/money on Ich have not done one or both of these. Including me

 

[SLewis]

i just got through a bout of ich, i noticed it in time to save my fish and did a 2 month fallow, and i treated my fish with copper, thankfully they all survived and my displaytank is back to being happy, although my damn trigger keeps trying to take my fingers off when i put food in the tank....

 

[andyrm66]

QT and TREAT all new fish. Keep you DT fallow for 10-12 weeks. QT all new corals, crabs/snails. Everything that goes in you DT needs to be treated if it is fish and qt'ed for 10-12 weeks if not fish. If you do this and don't cross contaminate, you WILL have an ich free tank, guaranteed. Ich is not in the air, it is not a bacteria, it is transported on fish and in water and on surfaces.

 

[SLewis]

Ich is not in the air, it is not a bacteria, it is transported on fish and in water and on surfaces.

Correct me if im wrong, i remember reading a study about "ich free is a myth", the study showed ich can lay dormant in a deep sand bed for over 9 months without propagating and it only came out when it saw a nice "target" (distressed fish ect).

 

[Ahhshoot]

although my damn trigger keeps trying to take my fingers off when i put food in the tank....

Two words for you...Turkey Baster.

 

[SLewis]

Two words for you...Turkey Baster.

Lol you should see the one i do have it has bite marks all over it, but sometimes i like to live on the dangerous side lol

 

[daverf]

Two words for you...Turkey Baster.

damn you autocorrect? were you calling his trigger a ****ing b*strd?

 

[Ahhshoot]

damn you autocorrect? were you calling his trigger a ****ing b*strd?

Negative ghost rider. Auto correct didn't fail me this time.

 

[robert.talarico]

Correct me if im wrong, i remember reading a study about "ich free is a myth", the study showed ich can lay dormant in a deep sand bed for over 9 months without propagating and it only came out when it saw a nice "target" (distressed fish ect).

I would have to agree with ich-free being a myth. I quarantine all my fish for 45 days yet my fish still got it. I believe it can be dormant for longer than 9 months. IMO ich attacks whenever there is a fluctuation of temperature inside the tank not when fish are distressed. Even with all the freshwater fish I've had, ichs characteristics have always been the same

 

[Justin144]

I have had ich in my tank for a while now. Its dormant in my fish, some of them lose it and some it re appears every other month. None have my fish have died from it and i haven't done any treatments (Hypo salinity, copper etc). I have two neon goby's that eat it and a cleaner shrimp that pretends he eats it.
All I do is feed them really well and make sure they're getting all their vitamins and it will subside. They're all really healthy just have an outbreak every now and then.
Good Luck

 

[andyrm66]

Havent seen it. Can you find it? Though it goes against every other single piece of scientific literature I've seen on the subject.

 

[andyrm66]

Just because you QT, doesn't mean they are not carrying Ich. Did you treat them with copper during QT? External stressors can allow an infected fish to show signs of the infection. Do you add coral to you tank?

Ich free tanks can and do happen!! I went through it once. Never again. Fish get treated, anything else wet gets qt'ed for 10-12 weeks. Havent had ich once since.

 

[jda123]

I don't believe in ich free either. I do believe in a 2 step QT process. First is hypo in a tank with rock and sand. Get the salinity down to really keep the parasites and yuck away. Get the fish eating well and especially eating pellets or flake that you can soak in garlic. Once the fish are eating well and adjusted to captivity, then it is 2-3 weeks in copper while bare bottom and PVC. I find that most good tempered, healthy fish will tolerate bare bottom for a while. After this, most of the bad stuff is gone and you can introduce into the display... and while I don't think that the display will ever be ich free, the fish will be in a great spot to fight it off on their own. If you can just get them to eat pellets with garlic, then you can really keep it away. I feed thera-a and sometimes soak em.

I do believe, and maybe I am alone, that garlic really helps if you can get your fish to eat it and not just pick at it.

As far as reefs without fish, it can be cool. The crabs and shrimp are more active without fish and can be fun. You will need to feed... so like rotifers and phyto if you have SPS and fine filters... or cyclops and flake will work for 'nems, LPS and the like. If you have clams, it can be a death sentence without the DOC. You might also need to turn your skimmer off.

 

[andyrm66]

I don't believe in ich free either. I do believe in a 2 step QT process. First is hypo in a tank with rock and sand. Get the salinity down to really keep the parasites and yuck away. Get the fish eating well and especially eating pellets or flake that you can soak in garlic. Once the fish are eating well and adjusted to captivity, then it is 2-3 weeks in copper while bare bottom and PVC. I find that most good tempered, healthy fish will tolerate bare bottom for a while. After this, most of the bad stuff is gone and you can introduce into the display... and while I don't think that the display will ever be ich free, the fish will be in a great spot to fight it off on their own. If you can just get them to eat pellets with garlic, then you can really keep it away. I feed thera-a and sometimes soak em.

I do believe, and maybe I am alone, that garlic really helps if you can get your fish to eat it and not just pick at it.

As far as reefs without fish, it can be cool. The crabs and shrimp are more active without fish and can be fun. You will need to feed... so like rotifers and phyto if you have SPS and fine filters... or cyclops and flake will work for 'nems, LPS and the like. If you have clams, it can be a death sentence without the DOC. You might also need to turn your skimmer off.

If you have the tank fallow for 10 weeks, and have coppered have fish. You now have an ich free tank. Once you add a coral, snail, or crab from a tank also containing fish, you just reinfected your tank.

 

[jda123]

Probably, although some will swear that they have done that and it reappeared, but who knows if they had NASA quality control variables. I do agree with you, though, that it is very likely. This is of little consequence since most don't have a second reef tank setup to fallow all new inverts, and most stores around here keep fish in their coral tanks.

Wet hands from one tank to another (in multiple tank households), clams, 'nems can all infect you again too since they carry large volumes of water.

I don't know if this is too off topic for this thread, but hypo does not kill other types of parasites/gunk like flukes or velvet.

 

[daverf]

Marine Ich requires a fish to complete its lifecycle. While there is a life cycle stage where Ich are not attached and visibly distinguished on a fish body, there is no dormant stage (akin to believing that a human can naturally/extraordinarily delay puberty). Invertebrates cannot be Ich carriers, although Ich (in any life cycle stage) can possibly be present on their body surface or source system water. Ich can be transferred when at rest on sand and rock from one system to another. Medication or hyposalinity can kill free swimming theronts, but can do little to nothing in killing the other stages. Cysts can take up to one month to hatch, but typically hatch faster. Cysts cannot be killed by medication or hyposalinity.

Ich free system is difficult to achieve, but possible if quarantine protocol is designed around the known lifecycle, to last longer than the the cyst stage's longest possible duration and effectively/completely kill the non-cyst Ich.

Also, there are 10,000+ known fish parasites, of which marine ich is one. Those who have followed protocol to exclude Ich from display tank placement, but see external parasite signs, may not be dealing with Ich.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/12/mini