ICP

[N1tew0lf1212]

Who is everyone using and why?

Mixed results on the web and I figure why not open a discussion about it here.

Give what you are using and why you are using it in a comment. No bashing will be allowed here. Just honest answers and possibly factual based responses would be awesome.

How often do you send one in?
What salt are you using?
Are you testing your RODI as well?

Any and all answers with personal experiences would be awesome.

Just remember everyone. Keep On Reefin On

 

[SynDen]

I use Triton testing. I have also used ICP analysis in the past but they are now out of business. ICP was sometimes fairly faulty in the results, but they were the cheapest one so they were good for quick tests. Where as triton is more comprehensive but also more expensive. I find triton to be more reliable and accurate overall too. I also like that with their reports they also tell you how much of each will need to be dosed to bring the levels back into the green and if you do multiple tests with them can tell you your consumption, and what your daily dosing should be to keep it level.

Triton does always recommend using their solutions which for the most part are very expensive, especially for ppl with very large tanks like myself. For that reason I make all my own solutions as its significantly cheaper, but you need a little chemical know-how to mix the solutions at the right concentrations.

When I first started the tank I did one about every 3 months, but now that the tank is been up for many years now I only do one about every 6 month, or anytime things look to be out of whack. The first few years of the tank I did almost no water changes, but now I do one every few months as it makes it a little easier to keep it stabilized when I do.

As for salt, I use whatever is cheapest, or whatever I can get on sale, which 90% of the time is Instant Ocean.

The only time I would bother testing the RODI water is if I was having issues with some impurity, or toxic element, getting in the water, and I didn't know where it was coming from. Fortunately I haven't had any such issue so I have never bothered to test my RODI

 

[jda123]

Please go and read the long ICP threads on RC where people have done analysis and multiple results.

In the end, they are not likely any better than a high quality reefing test kit. ICP does not live up to the hype. The other things that ICP can test for that you cannot get at home have no actually proven/known benefit for reef tanks regardless of what the people selling you supplements say. Many time, you get more questions than answers from ICP. Salifert test kits and Hannah Ultra Low Checker for po4 are good enough for me.

I would spend your ICP budget money on water changes and be ahead of the game. If you must use ICP, then use a good one like Oceamo who actually seem to care and will honestly talk about their shortcomings and stuff - nobody else will even talk about how bad there tests can be.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/how-we-use-icp-oes-results-of-unknown-accuracy-and-precision.862/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...n-outperform-icp-measurements…really.1007101/

I use Instant Ocean salt. I buy it in batch when it goes on sale and is usually around $40 a box at this time.

TDS on RO is fine with me. As long as it is under 5, then I am good. I will never hit zero since I used my bin to hold saltwater like 15 years ago and it will never read zero again. I look at the trend and when the TDS starts to rise, then I think about replacing the DI and filters... which means that I get around to it in a few months.

 

[jda123]

If you don't want to go down ICP rabbit hole, the plasma can ONLY count elements, not compounds. If the plasma sees a spike in the nitrogen range, it has no idea where that nitrogen came from - was it n2, no2, no3, nitrogen in organics, ammonia, ammonium, etc.?

Something like salinity is likely done with a hydrometer or conductivity meter. Compounds like no3, po4, ammonia, etc. are done with color changing indicators and light. Alk done with titration. Calcium can also be done with a conductivity meter, I think, but most likely use titration. Most companies will not even tell you how that they test this - Oceanmo does. My guess is that they use salifert or red sea test kits, or at least the same reagents in titration.

Elements that are in compound form cannot be separated from useful vs harmful forms. The iodine group is easiest to understand where there are many different forms in every tank yet only iodate is the only one that matters to us. There is no way to know if i2, iodate, iodide, organic iodine, etc. dominates or is deficient. Iodine (the element) was coming back in ICP test kits and companies were suggesting supplementing. In the early days of ICP people were harming their tanks by dosing too much since the tests cannot give an actionable result.

Lastly, things can change in the vials when they are shipped. Something like organic phosphorous can turn into po4. There are many other chemical interactions that can change in transit.

In the end, I don't ever see a need to use ICP ever again. I do change water, so I can use a good salt like IO and not worry about adding too many elements. My Calcium Reactor gets a lot of the major traces if I use natural media. This has worked for a few decades.

If you read through any of these threads, Cristoph will openly discuss how often the machines need calibrated, how certain peaks in the plasma readings can give errors, etc. He is great to pay attention to.

As for traces, don't forget that your fish food probably has all that you need. If you feed your fish well, then you are probably set. If you are fish less, then this is a whole different discussion for another time.

IMO, I think that ICP is a waste of money and does more harm than good for the hobby. However, the buy a lot of booths at shows and advertising on web sites.

 

[Visualsnow]

If you don't want to go down ICP rabbit hole, the plasma can ONLY count elements, not compounds. If the plasma sees a spike in the nitrogen range, it has no idea where that nitrogen came from - was it n2, no2, no3, nitrogen in organics, ammonia, ammonium, etc.?

Something like salinity is likely done with a hydrometer or conductivity meter. Compounds like no3, po4, ammonia, etc. are done with color changing indicators and light. Alk done with titration. Calcium can also be done with a conductivity meter, I think, but most likely use titration. Most companies will not even tell you how that they test this - Oceanmo does. My guess is that they use salifert or red sea test kits, or at least the same reagents in titration.

Elements that are in compound form cannot be separated from useful vs harmful forms. The iodine group is easiest to understand where there are many different forms in every tank yet only iodate is the only one that matters to us. There is no way to know if i2, iodate, iodide, organic iodine, etc. dominates or is deficient. Iodine (the element) was coming back in ICP test kits and companies were suggesting supplementing. In the early days of ICP people were harming their tanks by dosing too much since the tests cannot give an actionable result.

Lastly, things can change in the vials when they are shipped. Something like organic phosphorous can turn into po4. There are many other chemical interactions that can change in transit.

In the end, I don't ever see a need to use ICP ever again. I do change water, so I can use a good salt like IO and not worry about adding too many elements. My Calcium Reactor gets a lot of the major traces if I use natural media. This has worked for a few decades.

If you read through any of these threads, Cristoph will openly discuss how often the machines need calibrated, how certain peaks in the plasma readings can give errors, etc. He is great to pay attention to.

As for traces, don't forget that your fish food probably has all that you need. If you feed your fish well, then you are probably set. If you are fish less, then this is a whole different discussion for another time.

IMO, I think that ICP is a waste of money and does more harm than good for the hobby. However, the buy a lot of booths at shows and advertising on web sites.

Did anyone ever submit NMR for Seachem products? I know you and Taricha threw down some dough to do it with Vibrant that is now coming full circle.

 

[jda123]

I don't know what that would accomplish. You have to have a NMR of a known compound to compare against to try and determine anything. I don't use anything out of a bottle in my reef tank, so I don't really care about SeaChem. If I need a compound, then food-grade dry from Amazon and I make my own, but this is rare.

CU, CSU, UNC Greeley all have labs that will test things for you, but NMR is not a good choice for most things.