Bad LFS Experience
- Thread starter szavoda
- Start date
Unfortunately, any fish you purchase and subsequently place directly into your display which then proceeds to infect all of your other fish with a disease is simply not the fault of the fish store. It would be useful to be able to pass blame on to the store or vendor you acquired the fish from but that's just not the way it works.
The store or vendor sells you the specimen "as-is" and that's it. There is never going to be a guarantee that an animal you receive is free of parasites and disease.
This is a hard and very expensive lesson which I myself have learned multiple times.
If you want a powder blue tang and the fish store has one in stock, swimming around and eating food then you should get it. And then you should be prepared to continue raising it. The fish store is a middle man. They put you in contact with the wholesaler who you'd otherwise have no ability to deal with and therefore no hope of finding a powder blue tang. It's absolutely not the responsibility of the fish store to quarantine and cure your fish so that you get a hassle free experience. It's hard to comprehend but that's the way it is.
Quarantine tanks are an added expense and most of the time just take up space. However, they are essential and not quarantining your fish before introducing them to your display is 100% your fault.
You should actually praise any vendor that is willing to work with you on the level that it appears Jeff and Aquamart have. Giving you in store credit out of their pocket for a mistake you blindly made is not a luxury afforded in most aspects of daily life.
Just my $0.02
The store or vendor sells you the specimen "as-is" and that's it. There is never going to be a guarantee that an animal you receive is free of parasites and disease.
This is a hard and very expensive lesson which I myself have learned multiple times.
If you want a powder blue tang and the fish store has one in stock, swimming around and eating food then you should get it. And then you should be prepared to continue raising it. The fish store is a middle man. They put you in contact with the wholesaler who you'd otherwise have no ability to deal with and therefore no hope of finding a powder blue tang. It's absolutely not the responsibility of the fish store to quarantine and cure your fish so that you get a hassle free experience. It's hard to comprehend but that's the way it is.
Quarantine tanks are an added expense and most of the time just take up space. However, they are essential and not quarantining your fish before introducing them to your display is 100% your fault.
You should actually praise any vendor that is willing to work with you on the level that it appears Jeff and Aquamart have. Giving you in store credit out of their pocket for a mistake you blindly made is not a luxury afforded in most aspects of daily life.
Just my $0.02
Yes. It was extremely nice that Jeff did that. I appreciate it quite a bit. I don't make a lot of purchases at aquamart and I was familiar with how Elite Reef runs things. They are extremely understanding and helpful. I don't have a quarantine tank nor the space for one, and all of Elite Reefs fish are quarantined for different lengths of time dependant on the species. Tangs get quite a bit longer because they are more prone to disease and ich. Because of my lack of quarantine they actually kept a tang for me in quarantine for over 3 weeks. He had only a few spots of ich before they quarantined him and made sure he was completely healthy before he entered my tank. I have never had a bad experience with them. Not once. So it's hard to have people who get to know you, and care about what your tank needs are to someone who is unconcerned or tells you tough luck. I'm not upset, just a lot more cautious then before.
That's good to hear! Caution and paranoia play a major part in my fish purchases these days. I set up a quarantine a year ago that is not large enough for the size of fish I can potentially add to my display. So I tend to acquire small specimens and grow them out.
Fish purchases are often a complete impulse for the majority of people who keep fish. That goes for both freshwater and saltwater. Typically when you go to a fish store you know you want a fish but you don't know exactly which one and if you do know you will probably find a different one swimming around that you suddenly decide you want more.
So it's rare to think of the fish store as that middle man. Most customers think of the fish store as the place that found the fish, it's theirs now, so surely they treat it like you will treat it. So, in turn, you treat it like they treat it. If they have it swimming with other fish and not showing signs of infection then why should you worry?
It typically takes the loss of entire tank of fish (maybe even a couple of times) to realize that the fish store is just passing them along as-is. Working with a store that will specifically quarantine your fish for you or having a trusted friend with a quarantine tank could save you from trouble when you can't set one up yourself.
Fish purchases are often a complete impulse for the majority of people who keep fish. That goes for both freshwater and saltwater. Typically when you go to a fish store you know you want a fish but you don't know exactly which one and if you do know you will probably find a different one swimming around that you suddenly decide you want more.
So it's rare to think of the fish store as that middle man. Most customers think of the fish store as the place that found the fish, it's theirs now, so surely they treat it like you will treat it. So, in turn, you treat it like they treat it. If they have it swimming with other fish and not showing signs of infection then why should you worry?
It typically takes the loss of entire tank of fish (maybe even a couple of times) to realize that the fish store is just passing them along as-is. Working with a store that will specifically quarantine your fish for you or having a trusted friend with a quarantine tank could save you from trouble when you can't set one up yourself.
It's great that several LFS have established QT procedures for new stock. However, their QT regimens are not a guarantee that the fish you purchase carries no pathogens into your display tank. QT is more than simple prophylaxis and/or active treatment. It also provides your newly acquired critter time to adjust to your feeding habits as well as time for you to observe the habits of your new fish. As was mentioned earlier, unless these are captive bred fish delivered directly from the breeder (think ORA or SA) to the retailer, they have been through the hands of collectors, wholesalers, the retailer and then you. Your new fish needs some rest and relaxation before you drop it into a tank with potential rivals for space and food.
Failing to maintain a QT tank is simply inviting disaster. A simple bare bottom 10g or 20g tank, PVC hiding space, sponge filter and a heater are all that is required. Your system doesn't have to stay running 24x7, simply drop the sponge filter into your sump and transfer it to the QT tank when needed. Viola! Instant QT. Once your QT regimen is finished and you've transferred the fish to your display tank, clean the sponge filter, let it air dry and then return it to your sump for re-colonization by nitrifying bacteria for your next fish purchase.
There is no such thing as a disease free fish.... fish become susceptible to disease when they are stressed... much like you and your immune system. Similar to getting a flu shot for yourself, QT'ing your fish doesn't guarantee that the animal won't get sick, but if it does come down with something, treatment and feeding will be much easier in a small system... and you don't risk the rest of your prized collection by playing Russian roulette with them.
I have a lovely fish in QT now... it's been there for 6 months.... it's eventual home will be with a pair of Tinkers butterflies and Interruptus angels.... what do you want to bet that when I move it... I still might see a little white spot? However... it will be well conditioned and be able to handle the transition.
Failing to maintain a QT tank is simply inviting disaster. A simple bare bottom 10g or 20g tank, PVC hiding space, sponge filter and a heater are all that is required. Your system doesn't have to stay running 24x7, simply drop the sponge filter into your sump and transfer it to the QT tank when needed. Viola! Instant QT. Once your QT regimen is finished and you've transferred the fish to your display tank, clean the sponge filter, let it air dry and then return it to your sump for re-colonization by nitrifying bacteria for your next fish purchase.
There is no such thing as a disease free fish.... fish become susceptible to disease when they are stressed... much like you and your immune system. Similar to getting a flu shot for yourself, QT'ing your fish doesn't guarantee that the animal won't get sick, but if it does come down with something, treatment and feeding will be much easier in a small system... and you don't risk the rest of your prized collection by playing Russian roulette with them.
I have a lovely fish in QT now... it's been there for 6 months.... it's eventual home will be with a pair of Tinkers butterflies and Interruptus angels.... what do you want to bet that when I move it... I still might see a little white spot? However... it will be well conditioned and be able to handle the transition.
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Just adding my thoughts to this, i agree that any fish put into our systems must be quarantined and treated even if the LFS says they treat with Copper. Had a very bad crash a few years back with a PBT that took 3 of my other fish with him... Luckily saved the other 6 but have been worried ever since to add another tang because of what that fish introduced into my system, happy with my sailfin who beat the sickness. But again its my own fault for not QT and would have never blamed the LFS i got it from, to me the LFS are just holding facilities. As far as selling your fish you reserved out from under you, thats a different story and one i wouldn't take lightly, i too had an experience with aquamart where i had called about a light fixture , they said it was in-stock and that they would have it ready for me, i made the Hour drive to the shop to find out it was not the fixture they had told me it was and said "this one seemed to be similar" after i arrived at the shop. We all know that lighting is very near to our hearts so needless to say i was disappointed, especially after having good experiences their a few years back. I grabbed a cheap frag to make myself feel like the trip wasn't pointless, but unless i see a super cheap Acro for sale , you will find me at aquatic art. As far as fish go i have been buying fish from Neptunes since about 96 and always have been happy, something about that corner spot brings back childhood memories!
I am shocked that this thread is even active, but I just wanted to clarify my own situation again since it seems like people might be confusing my experience and Sophie1213's:
First, the negotiation to include a 14 day guarantee by Aquamart was based on my QT practices and their desire to have my business as opposed to me getting the fish from LiveAquaria (who offers 14 days).
Second, I QT everything - rigidly. The PBT that I got had not even finished QT at the store and looked rather rough. But, I figured that I would do my best with him since, well, I had a guarantee and that he fared at least as well, if not better, in my QT system.
Who's fault is all of this - mine - for not getting this in writing. I am a big boy and know how to protect myself. However, thank you to Aquamart for stepping up and offering to try to make things right. I plan to add a few more fish to my tank and I will be sure to visit Aquamart in the future...
First, the negotiation to include a 14 day guarantee by Aquamart was based on my QT practices and their desire to have my business as opposed to me getting the fish from LiveAquaria (who offers 14 days).
Second, I QT everything - rigidly. The PBT that I got had not even finished QT at the store and looked rather rough. But, I figured that I would do my best with him since, well, I had a guarantee and that he fared at least as well, if not better, in my QT system.
Who's fault is all of this - mine - for not getting this in writing. I am a big boy and know how to protect myself. However, thank you to Aquamart for stepping up and offering to try to make things right. I plan to add a few more fish to my tank and I will be sure to visit Aquamart in the future...
+1 for Stone Aquatics 4 day guarantee. I too have lost fish from most recently from an unknown disease that came in on a wrasse purchased from Aquatic Art. After the initial loss within hours of purchase it spread within my quarantine tank and killed several other fish that were nearing the end of an 8 week ich treatment. Lesson learned is that not only is quarantine important but how we quarantine is also important. Had I added the wrasse to another quarantine tank for observation for a week or two minimum I would have only lost the one fish instead of several. I've never had a problem with any of the local vendors and as hobbyists it is our responsibility to use proper quarantine procedures no matter where they come from. I don't blame aquatic art, I blame myself. I'm newer to the Denver area and one of the things I'd like to see implemented here that I've seen other places is the same 14 day guarantee that Live Aquaria offers. Other LFS's in other states do this and I think it's a testament to not only their business principles but also their belief in their livestock and quarantine procedures. No hobbyists at any level is going to spend $$ on a fish just to kill it, we all want the best for our finned friends and if other stores such as Stone Aquatics can offer a guarantee I see no viable reason the others can't. As a side note if anyone else is as nuts as me to have a vet come out to find out what disease their fish has don't use Dr Koi that lady is a quack when it comes to marine fish and doesn't know what she's doing. It cost me $350 for her to tell me that the wrasse that caused all my losses brought a freshwater only disease into my quarantine tank lol. Save your money and learn from my experience. What ultimately led to my losses stopping was a complete separation of fish from one another, copper didn't work, praxis didn't work nor did formalin or sulfa drugs.
X2
I've bought fish at most all fish stores around Colorado - and all go through QT, learned my lesson. No store that I know of does a full proper QT - they cant, they would have to hold fish way to long. Systems need to be fallow etc. Corals dont get Ich but water carries different life stages. I think I've seen fish at every store with ich at one time or another.
I've bought fish at most all fish stores around Colorado - and all go through QT, learned my lesson. No store that I know of does a full proper QT - they cant, they would have to hold fish way to long. Systems need to be fallow etc. Corals dont get Ich but water carries different life stages. I think I've seen fish at every store with ich at one time or another.