Dead Shrimp and ICP questions

[Dustin.g90]

Hello,
I have a 25 gallon AIO jbj aquarium. Its a mixed reef with various LPS, SPS, zoa's euphyllia. It also houses two clownfish and an orchid dottyback a handful of snails and a hermit crab I have had since the beginning. The tank is a little over two years old and my coral are thriving and growing and my fish are fat and happy. However, I do have one problem and that is an aiptasia outbreak that is getting a little out of control. Manual removal with aiptasia x is no longer a feasible option and given the tank size a copperband or filefish are no go's. Berghia have proven difficult to track down locally so I thought I would try a peppermint shrimp. I got one and drip acclimated for about 30 minutes and put him in the tank. It lasted throughout the night but the next day I observed it laying on its side and was dead within a couple of hours. It was a rather small shrimp I would like to point out that my LFS very recently got. Though he seemed healthy at the store since I had the person working there feed it some aiptasia and the little guy did go to town. I tested all my parameters and they seemed normal (results down below) so I waited a couple of weeks after two 10% water changes using red sea coral pro salt and decided to try another shrimp. This time I got a much larger shrimp that was mowing down on aiptasia at a different LFS. This time I drip acclimated it for over an hour slowly until I was confident that the water in its container was all my tank water. I added him to the tank and had to run an errand, when I came home an hour and a half later he was dead. At this point I knew something was off and pony'd up the cash for an ICP test through ATI. I got my results back and everything checked out except Iodine, Zinc, and Manganese. Zinc and Manganese came back showing no results on the test and Iodine came back at 18.19 ug/l when they recommend 66.14 ug/l. ICP's recommendation are as follows:

dose 9629 ml of zinc for 1 day
dose 4814 ml of Manganese for 1 day
and dose 1512 ml a day for 3 days of Iodine.

This seems like a whole lot of dosing and over a thousand dollars worth of additives if I am interpreting this correctly. I know in the past I have read shrimp require Iodine for molting but I am wondering if my low Iodine would kill them so suddenly. 1512 ml seems like a lot of additives for a 25 gallon aquarium should I really be adding 9 bottles of Red Sea's Iodine dose over three days? Anyone else experienced a similar issue? I know ATI is worldwide so when they recommend an ml is this not a milliliter? The aiptasia are starting to irritate a lot of corals and I feel like manual removal will be a never ending process so I really need to find a more natural solution. Appreciate any advice!

ICP results
Salinity 35.2 PSU
Alk 8.87 dkh
Magnesium 1413
Calcium 422
Nitrate 7
Phosphate .05

the only parameters that ATI recommended adjusted were listed above. All other minor elements were within their reported normal parameters.

 

[SynDen]

Ya those dosing amount are ridiculous, I wouldn't go by that at all. If you dosed those amounts in a 25g tank you likely would kill your tank. Plus if you do regular water changes then those numbers will take care of themselves, so no reason to dose those in such a small tank.

Those being low also would not account for the shrimp death. There is no way a deficiency in those would cause a shrimp to die that quickly.

One thing that would cause quick sudden death would be stray current in the tank. Have you grounded your tank or tested to see if there is any voltage in the water recently?

I take it you buying these shrimp from a local store and they haven't sat in the bag any longer then a couple hours at the most? Also when you drip acclimate, are you testing salinity during that at all? If testing your salinity what are you using to test with?

I always start by testing the water the livestock came in and then test my tank water so I know what the difference between the two is. If they both have the same salinity then you can just adjust for temp and then drop the shrimp right in the tank without the drip. If the numbers don't match then I do a drip and then I test the shrimps water until it matches the tank salinity. The farther apart the the params are the longer a drip acclimation can take, so sometimes it can take quite a lot longer then you would expect.

 

[jda123]

I would strongly recommend that you cruise over to reef2reef and read about how bad and unreliable ICP tests really are. You might be able to use them for something, but I would not trust them too much and I would especially not test them enough to dose off of them. If you are worried about elements, then just changing water is the best way to go about this... the $50 spent on ICP can buy a lot of water changes for a 25 gallon tank. I would not dose anything that you cannot test for with a high quality test kit (Salifert, at least).

The main things that I would look toward do not appear to be an issue. Copper can kill shrimp that fast, but if you have a reef tank with rock and sand, then there is nearly no chance that there is free copper. They are also sensitive to high nitrate and phosphate, but 7 and .05 are also no issue. If you have good test kits for these, then they are fine.

Shrimp are sensitive. They can really get harmed by quick salinity changes, but since you dripped them, that should not be an issue either.

The only other thing that I can think of is total salinity. Are you at 1.026 or 35 ppt with a well-calibrated refractometer? Shrimp cannot tolerate hypo, so you have to make sure that the shop had them at full strength seawater and that the move to your home was not the final straw.

Manual removal of aiptasia is a never ending process, and sometimes you have to do it until you get some shrimp to live. You can just use pickling lime (Mrs Wages is very available... kalkwasser) from the grocery store or amazon and not spend so much on a reef product. Turn off all of the pump and just put a little bit in the mouth and let them "eat" it. I have many peppermints and some fish and I still have to kalk the ones that they cannot get to... or don't want to get to. Even with peppermints that mow down aiptasia, they don't really like the larger ones and you still have to get them.

When you do get peppermints that live, there are a few things to know. First, they seem to live about two or three years, so you have to replace them. Water changes are more than enough to supply them iodine. If you must dose, then iodide is what you want and not iodine... and a little is fine. Lastly, you need to feed them - they are not coral eaters, but they will eat coral if they are starving just like you and I would. They cannot survive on detritus and gunk. They need fed.

I order peppermints regularly from ReefTopia.com and they are great. I have some on hand and ready to replace others when they die of old age. They mow down aiptasia. They sometimes come in small and I let them molt once or twice in a fuge, but this way I know that they are not already middle aged when I get them. They ones from the Florida Keys are the best kind to eat aips... the others are hit or miss.

I guess that this did not say much, but I would try another source if you are zero for two from this same LFS.

 

[flagg37]

Wow, no way would I dose that much. That is 5 gallons of dosing into your little 25 gallon tank.

 

[TheRealChrisBrown]

I don’t think your 25g tank is necessarily too small for a smaller filefish. They don’t need the swim space of something like a tang. With the clowns and dotty back you might be pushing it on overcrowding the tank I suppose.

Algae Barn has a small captive bred ORA filefish. https://www.algaebarn.com/shop/captive-bred/fish/file/ora-aiptasia-eating-filefish/

The beauty of a filefish is it will continue to go after the aiptasia as it crops up. I find them way easier to keep than shrimp of any kind. If it outgrows your system you can always sell it as a proven aiptasia eater and find yourself another smaller filefish.

 

[Dustin.g90]

Thanks for the great advice all, its really appreciated! I cant believe I never thought to test the salinity in the shrimp bags and compare to my water. I use the hanna salinity checker and make sure to keep it calibrated but it might be time to break out the refractometer (I must admit my eyes aren't the best and I always struggled using it prior to Hanna checker). With the Hanna checker I always keep my tank around 1.025 the ICP test read the 35.2 so maybe I am in hypo salinity and my hanna checker is reading low.
I never thought to look into current and electricity in my tank, I definitely don't feel anything when my hands in it and none of my current animals seem to mind but might be worth looking into.
I am still on the fence with filefish my dottyback is kind of a jerk and I wouldn't want any problems.
I think the course of action is to double check where my salinity is at vs the store and try to adjust. In the meantime I will continue to manually remove the big ones but fingers crossed I get some help from a shrimp soon!

 

[jda123]

35 ppt is full reef salinity.

The filefish are not bullies, but they are not complete wimps either. You can usually find them at PetCo and local stores if you want to try one. They cannot get to all of the aips, just like anything else. They also are not guaranteed to eat aips and some even eat other corals. The good thing with a 25g tank is that they should be easy to get out if they are troublesome. The well-behaved ones that eat aips are like gold, IMO.

I have to kill the ones in crevices in my 240g. I do it a few times a year. It is just a way of life. I have an angelfish that will eat them when it can get to them, but they cannot get to all of them. I have some peppermints in the tank, too, but they cannot get to all of the cracks and stuff, and they don't like to get the ones out in the open. I did have to banish a filefish to my FOWLR once it got larger since it was picking at the polyps on my acropora, but it does a good job now in the FOWLR.

It is unfortunate, but aips, bubble algae and the like is just a part of reefing. You can start over, quarantine everything and all of that and they still usually get into the tank. Unlike algae, cyano, dinos, etc, you cannot just raise no3 and po4 to kill them... the aips don't seem to mind high no3 and po4 long after most algae and cyano dies back.

 

[SynDen]

If you go the file fish route, Aquatic Art had several in stock when I was in there this last weekend. Keep'n it reef also had one

 

[Dustin.g90]

Good to know all! After busting out the refractometer and calibrating it I feel like my Hanna salinity checker is definitely reading low so that could be the answer to my question. ICP (never again btw) said I was over 35 ppt and the refractometer said the same thing meanwhile Hanna was showing a much lower figure even after another calibration. Think I’m going to use the refractometer going forward. Plan is to slowly bring salinity down a bit and after that’s done decide between filefish and trying another shrimp. Jda123 I hear you about aiptasia I’m definitely okay will killing the big ones once in a while but huge chunks of my sand bed are like small fields of baby aiptasia so I definitely need some help. Thanks again for all the info much appreciated!