It been a while, but I'm BACK and planning a big build.
- Thread starter lpsouth1978@msn.com
- Start date
Most of the equipment will be here by Fri. There have been A LOT of changes to the list. We had some issues with the first place we tried to order from, so ended up ordering from different sources. Here is what we have ordered so far:
Reef Octopus Regal 300INT Skimmer - http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-octopus-12-regal-300int-internal-protein-skimmer.html
Super Reef Octopus BR140 Biopellet Reactor - http://www.aquacave.com/super-reef-octopus-br140-biopellet-reactor.html
Mag Drive 7 Pump (for Reactor) - http://www.aquacave.com/mag-drive-7-water-pump.html
Mag Drive 24 Return pump - http://www.aquacave.com/mag-drive-24-water-pump.html?___SID=U
Vertex Biopellets, 1000ml - http://www.aquacave.com/vertex-biopellets-1-000-ml.html
2 x Finnex 800W Titanium heaters - http://www.aquacave.com/finnex-800w-deluxe-titanium-heating-tube.html
2 x Finnex HC810 Digital Controllers - http://www.aquacave.com/finnex-hc810-digital-controller.html
2 x Jebao RW20 wave maker pumps - http://www.amazon.com/Jebao-RW-20-W...F8&qid=1426091210&sr=8-1&keywords=jebao+rw-20
If the Jebao Pumps work well we will order more of them to achieve the desired flow. If they do not work well, we will use them as mixing pumps and order Vortecs instead.
As for the lights, the light that we were originally going to get are no longer available, so the plan changed dramatically! We have now ordered:
2 x 72" light fixtures with a total of
- 6 x 15000K 250W Metal Halides and
- 8 x 80W T5 Actinics
We also ordered 6 x 20000K 250W bulbs, so we can see which we like better. We have used halides in the past with good success and this was much cheaper than going LED. We may chose to retrofit these fixtures later with 100W-200W LED's in place of the halides (I have done this on another tank and it is still doing well almost 2 years later).
I am also looking into GFO and carbon reactors, reef controllers, and 2 part dosing. I have never used any of these, so I want to do my research before committing to anything.
Reef Octopus Regal 300INT Skimmer - http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-octopus-12-regal-300int-internal-protein-skimmer.html
Super Reef Octopus BR140 Biopellet Reactor - http://www.aquacave.com/super-reef-octopus-br140-biopellet-reactor.html
Mag Drive 7 Pump (for Reactor) - http://www.aquacave.com/mag-drive-7-water-pump.html
Mag Drive 24 Return pump - http://www.aquacave.com/mag-drive-24-water-pump.html?___SID=U
Vertex Biopellets, 1000ml - http://www.aquacave.com/vertex-biopellets-1-000-ml.html
2 x Finnex 800W Titanium heaters - http://www.aquacave.com/finnex-800w-deluxe-titanium-heating-tube.html
2 x Finnex HC810 Digital Controllers - http://www.aquacave.com/finnex-hc810-digital-controller.html
2 x Jebao RW20 wave maker pumps - http://www.amazon.com/Jebao-RW-20-W...F8&qid=1426091210&sr=8-1&keywords=jebao+rw-20
If the Jebao Pumps work well we will order more of them to achieve the desired flow. If they do not work well, we will use them as mixing pumps and order Vortecs instead.
As for the lights, the light that we were originally going to get are no longer available, so the plan changed dramatically! We have now ordered:
2 x 72" light fixtures with a total of
- 6 x 15000K 250W Metal Halides and
- 8 x 80W T5 Actinics
We also ordered 6 x 20000K 250W bulbs, so we can see which we like better. We have used halides in the past with good success and this was much cheaper than going LED. We may chose to retrofit these fixtures later with 100W-200W LED's in place of the halides (I have done this on another tank and it is still doing well almost 2 years later).
I am also looking into GFO and carbon reactors, reef controllers, and 2 part dosing. I have never used any of these, so I want to do my research before committing to anything.
The BRS Carbon / GFO reactor works great and is much cheaper than other alternatives.
For 2 part dosing, I had good luck with the BRS 1.1ml/min pumps controlled by my apex, which allowed a high pH cutoff on alk onky without affecting Cal. They are cheap and reliable.
For reef controllers, apex is hands down the best one you can get. Reef angel is difficult to code, Reefkeepers are limited in programming capabilities, and Profilux is expensive with bad support.
For 2 part dosing, I had good luck with the BRS 1.1ml/min pumps controlled by my apex, which allowed a high pH cutoff on alk onky without affecting Cal. They are cheap and reliable.
For reef controllers, apex is hands down the best one you can get. Reef angel is difficult to code, Reefkeepers are limited in programming capabilities, and Profilux is expensive with bad support.
300G SPS tank screams for a CaRx. You can use a lot of 2 part after a while - my 240 would use more saturated 2 part than the tank can evap in a day without a lot of fans.
You won't likely replace those MH with LED - it is hard if you know the difference. Which fixtures and bulbs did you get?
EDIT: controllers are for you. No tank really needs them and many, many do just fine without anything other than a reliable temp controller (which can be had for less than $100 and are VERY high grade - not hobby grade). With that in mind, just pick one that you like and will work for you, as a person.
You won't likely replace those MH with LED - it is hard if you know the difference. Which fixtures and bulbs did you get?
EDIT: controllers are for you. No tank really needs them and many, many do just fine without anything other than a reliable temp controller (which can be had for less than $100 and are VERY high grade - not hobby grade). With that in mind, just pick one that you like and will work for you, as a person.
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I wouldn't be too sure. I have done MANY DIY LED builds and really like them. I am not a big fan of the heat and bulb replacement costs with the halides. There are soooooo many LED options now that I can easily get what I wand and the corals need for about $200 for each Halide replacement. Plus I will save a TON on electricity and bulbs.
I got the Oddysea fixtures. I know that there are a lot of horror stories about them, but I have used them for many, many years and have never had an issue. AND the price is right. I am quite sure that we will replace the halides with LED's within the next year.
In considering the controller, I am not sure that I will get one. It seems to me that the things the controller can do for me are not that useful or worth the money. My understanding is that most people use the controller to control their light cycles and pumps (vortecs) primarily. The way I see it the pumps can control themselves as much as is necessary and the lights I am using are not able to be controlled by anything. All I need is a good light timer, or two, and I am good to go.
I may have to consider a calcium reactor, but again, I have not used one and I know they can be expensive. This build is already testing the budget, so it may be something that I will have to consider at a later date.
I got the Oddysea fixtures. I know that there are a lot of horror stories about them, but I have used them for many, many years and have never had an issue. AND the price is right. I am quite sure that we will replace the halides with LED's within the next year.
In considering the controller, I am not sure that I will get one. It seems to me that the things the controller can do for me are not that useful or worth the money. My understanding is that most people use the controller to control their light cycles and pumps (vortecs) primarily. The way I see it the pumps can control themselves as much as is necessary and the lights I am using are not able to be controlled by anything. All I need is a good light timer, or two, and I am good to go.
I may have to consider a calcium reactor, but again, I have not used one and I know they can be expensive. This build is already testing the budget, so it may be something that I will have to consider at a later date.
Most people, yes. The true value in controllers is in failsafes and savings from using it in place of other controllers (dosing pump controller, ATO controller, heater controller, fan controller, CaRx controller, etc). You can actually use a controller for lots of MH lights if you get extra outlet bars (15A max each bar, 10A max per outlet) or use and outlet to trigger relays or contactors.
If a controller is programmed properly, several pieces of equipment have to fail for a tank crash to be possible. For example, I protect against overheating by having my apex turn heaters on/off with its thermometer but I have the heater thermostats set 1 degree above tank temp, so both the apex and the heater thermostat have to fail simultaneously to overheat my tank. I have my skimmer set to shut off if sump water level raises more than 1/2" above normal level or when the return is off to protect against skimmate being pumped into the sump. I have my ALK dosing pump set to shut off if pH gets too high to avoid shocking livestock. I have my ATO set to allow no more than double my evap rate if the normal level float closes, stop if the normal level float or high level float open, detect when a float is stuck and reduce output when a float is stuck, further reduce output if a low level switch opens, etc.
Then add to this the ability to synchronize lights, pumps, dosing, etc., and seasonal control. I have my pumps set to do pseudo random tide simulations that are higher intensity during the day and lower intensity at night. I have seasonal temp control set up so that the tank temp is 76 in winter, 82 in summer, and it automatically moves between the two extremes as days pass. This reduces energy use by a significant amount without any intervention from me manually changing thermostats ever week.
If a controller is programmed properly, several pieces of equipment have to fail for a tank crash to be possible. For example, I protect against overheating by having my apex turn heaters on/off with its thermometer but I have the heater thermostats set 1 degree above tank temp, so both the apex and the heater thermostat have to fail simultaneously to overheat my tank. I have my skimmer set to shut off if sump water level raises more than 1/2" above normal level or when the return is off to protect against skimmate being pumped into the sump. I have my ALK dosing pump set to shut off if pH gets too high to avoid shocking livestock. I have my ATO set to allow no more than double my evap rate if the normal level float closes, stop if the normal level float or high level float open, detect when a float is stuck and reduce output when a float is stuck, further reduce output if a low level switch opens, etc.
Then add to this the ability to synchronize lights, pumps, dosing, etc., and seasonal control. I have my pumps set to do pseudo random tide simulations that are higher intensity during the day and lower intensity at night. I have seasonal temp control set up so that the tank temp is 76 in winter, 82 in summer, and it automatically moves between the two extremes as days pass. This reduces energy use by a significant amount without any intervention from me manually changing thermostats ever week.
Looking forward to seeing the build. I actually got my wife to approve two new large tanks for the house. One will be a Fish Only for my office and the other will be an SPS dominated reef tank in the kitchen alcove. Did you have a structural engineer verify that your placement location can handle the weight? That's what I need to do before deciding on the size of the FOWLR tank.
Steve
Steve
Thanks to the help of some fellow MASC members, we have the tank in the house. I have also received most of the other things we ordered. We are still waiting for the bio-pellet reactor and skimmer to ship. It is now time to get the stand done. Here is what I have so far:
300 Deep Dimension tank
90 gallon tank for sump
2 x 800 watt titanium heaters
2 x 800 watt heater controllers
Mag 7 water pump - to run the bio-pellet reactor
Mag 24 water pump - for return
2 x 1000ml bio-pellet media
We are thinking about getting a Jebao DC12000 for our return pump. Apparently, the Mag 24 uses 265 watts and puts off a lot of heat. The Jebao only uses 82 watts and is controllable without using valves and stressing the pump. I just hate that we spent $220 on a pump we may not use.
300 Deep Dimension tank
90 gallon tank for sump
2 x 800 watt titanium heaters
2 x 800 watt heater controllers
Mag 7 water pump - to run the bio-pellet reactor
Mag 24 water pump - for return
2 x 1000ml bio-pellet media
We are thinking about getting a Jebao DC12000 for our return pump. Apparently, the Mag 24 uses 265 watts and puts off a lot of heat. The Jebao only uses 82 watts and is controllable without using valves and stressing the pump. I just hate that we spent $220 on a pump we may not use.
What any pump uses in wattage is directly returned to the tank to heat it. You get no savings in Colorado by using a lower wattage pump unless your tank is overheating all the time. If it is overheating, then you are doing something wrong. Heating is going to be BY FAR your #1 expense, so having the pump take some of the workload away from the heaters is a good thing, especially if you can use a more reliable pump. Failure rate is pretty high with the Chinese DC pump (all of them, not just Jeabo since they are all the same pump with different color housing), even the new "models." You should be able to glean all that you need to know about them that the first awesome model needed a new model within a year and those aren't even that great. With something so important, go with reliability.
I do take back what I said now that I know that you are OK with Oddysea fixtures. LED might be better than those...
You might consider dropping those Finnex controllers and get a single Ranco. Have you seen the massive amounts of failures with those? ...and they stick on and boil your tank. Sticking off would be way better. I also take back what I said about using a Apex if you want to use those... they need another level of protection.
Are you sure that you want to use biopellets right out of the gate?
I do take back what I said now that I know that you are OK with Oddysea fixtures. LED might be better than those...
You might consider dropping those Finnex controllers and get a single Ranco. Have you seen the massive amounts of failures with those? ...and they stick on and boil your tank. Sticking off would be way better. I also take back what I said about using a Apex if you want to use those... they need another level of protection.
Are you sure that you want to use biopellets right out of the gate?
I will stop with the equipment if you have your mind made up...
Using biopellets out of the gate can/will inhibit the cycle of the tank where you grow anoxic bacteria to process the N and P in the sand and rock. You will basically keep those zones from being created since the nutrients that you need to create them will get stripped by the waterborne bacteria via the skimmer. The use of biopellets in conjunction with dry rock (if you go that way) can keep your tank from being mature for years and years... like 2 or more. Even with good rock, it keep them rock from growing bacteria and microfauna to equilibrium. Basically, it cheats the cycle... not just NH3 and NO2, but all the way to NO3 consumption. If you do want to use the bio pellets right out of the gate, plan on a GFO reactor too. BTW - I have 2 SPS tank with no GFO or biopellets/vodka/vinegar, but I took the time to let them cycle.
...speaking of dry rock, read my thread in the rock section, if you want some opinions from the members about it for when you start to stock. It might save you some trouble before you order.
Using biopellets out of the gate can/will inhibit the cycle of the tank where you grow anoxic bacteria to process the N and P in the sand and rock. You will basically keep those zones from being created since the nutrients that you need to create them will get stripped by the waterborne bacteria via the skimmer. The use of biopellets in conjunction with dry rock (if you go that way) can keep your tank from being mature for years and years... like 2 or more. Even with good rock, it keep them rock from growing bacteria and microfauna to equilibrium. Basically, it cheats the cycle... not just NH3 and NO2, but all the way to NO3 consumption. If you do want to use the bio pellets right out of the gate, plan on a GFO reactor too. BTW - I have 2 SPS tank with no GFO or biopellets/vodka/vinegar, but I took the time to let them cycle.
...speaking of dry rock, read my thread in the rock section, if you want some opinions from the members about it for when you start to stock. It might save you some trouble before you order.
Thank you for the info on the bio pellets. I was not aware that it could inhibit a proper cycle of the tank. I will ensure that the tank is cycled before employing the bio pellet reactor.
BTW, I am far from a newbie to reef aquariums, though I have been away for a couple of years. I am, however, new to some of the more high tech equipment that many reefs employ. I started with reefs more than a decade ago and have had several, successful, reefs in that time. My 135g tank is still set up at a coworkers home and thriving after 8 years of not changing a thing. I also have a successful 3g custom build that has been running successfully for several years. None of my previous tanks have been complicated builds, the most high tech device on any of these tanks was an ATO. No reactors, controllers, dosing systems, PH monitors, etc... This is definitely a learning experience for me.
As for the rock, I think I will probably use a mix of dry and live. That or use all dry in the DT and put live in the sump to seed the dry rock and aid in a faster cycle. I have a lot of work to do before I will be ready for the rock and sand.
BTW, I am far from a newbie to reef aquariums, though I have been away for a couple of years. I am, however, new to some of the more high tech equipment that many reefs employ. I started with reefs more than a decade ago and have had several, successful, reefs in that time. My 135g tank is still set up at a coworkers home and thriving after 8 years of not changing a thing. I also have a successful 3g custom build that has been running successfully for several years. None of my previous tanks have been complicated builds, the most high tech device on any of these tanks was an ATO. No reactors, controllers, dosing systems, PH monitors, etc... This is definitely a learning experience for me.
As for the rock, I think I will probably use a mix of dry and live. That or use all dry in the DT and put live in the sump to seed the dry rock and aid in a faster cycle. I have a lot of work to do before I will be ready for the rock and sand.
Got the skimmer and bio-pellet reactor today. I will post pics later tonight. On another note.....
This build has hit it's first snag. After getting the tank home we noticed some small chips on one corner of the tank, and one side of the trim was not siliconed. After talking to Marineland, they want to replace the tank, which means loading it up and taking it back to the store, waiting another week for the new tank to come in, and then continuing with the build. Looks like we have another 10 days or so to finish the stand.
This build has hit it's first snag. After getting the tank home we noticed some small chips on one corner of the tank, and one side of the trim was not siliconed. After talking to Marineland, they want to replace the tank, which means loading it up and taking it back to the store, waiting another week for the new tank to come in, and then continuing with the build. Looks like we have another 10 days or so to finish the stand.
