Named/LE Corals

[gh0st]

I for one have never liked the "Named/LE" coral fad that seems to be so widespread in the hobby, as well as the crazy high and per polyp prices that goes along with the hype.

I miss being able to order Zoanthids by the colony and getting/selling amazing huge colonies for $50-60ish bucks per 75 polyps. Now everything gets cherry picked and fragged away to micro single polyps frags that sell for $$$.

Anybody else feel the same way?

 

[chrislorentz]

+1

 

[SAZAMA]

yeah agreed. its all about rare

 

[Wicked Color]

I can see why its there, and in the end am a fan because its a way to communicate whats being sold or bought, there have been some consequenses that naming is partly to blame for, but I still think the market is more of a factor than the name, the coolest stuff sells for the most, reguardless of name, ie; bad azz scollys and plates might get a generic name, like warpaint or pinwheel, but they are not tyree, and they are always more expensive than any zoa.

 

[djkms]

Ahh yes, the pokemon mentality. Yes it sucks. Yes it has made the hobby worse (the hobby lasted years and years without this whole naming Tyree Jason Fox nonsense) - its not needed IMO. This topic really gets to me and I did a lot of speaking out on it on RC.

There is no such thing as a "rare" or "limited edition" coral. If there was it would be on a extinction list and regulated. And if it is truly "rare" then that is only because the asshats named it "rare" which causes the collectors to pull more of the same coral out of the ocean because us selfish greedy need it now because its rare Americans are creating a demand for it.

Jason Fox and Tyree can suck it

boy o boy dont get me started on this topic again lol.

 

[Yaten13]

I think rare is almost always a consequence of 1: slow growing, 2: difficult to keep. Xenia will never be rare because it grows like a weed and is impossible to kill even by the worst conditions. Thus the market is saturated and the price is low. A chalice that puts on 1 eye every 6 months and is very difficult to keep will always have limited availability because new frags dont go on the market all the time. Thus rare. Thus expensive.
IMO, there are a huge number of very nice, non-rare corals for very little money. If you want something that isnt available all over the place (i.e. to be cooler than all of your friends), you are going to have to pay.

Edit: ducks in anticipation of flames. Also 3: hype / rarity. Either buy it now and be the first to own it for a premium, or wait 2 years for everyone to have it and buy it cheap. Same with almost every other commodity.

 

[djkms]

Here put this in your pipe and smoke it!

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/ebac/index.php

Here is one of Tyree's main collectors as well from what I understand. He has a article somewhere on his website where he states that the whole naming thing has really hurt the reefs because now the collectors are more apt to collect these "named" corals for more profit, stripping them out of the ocean. There is this "theory" that aquaculturing the "named" corals is saving the reefs when in reality its making it worse because the demand to collect certain corals is higher and aquaculturing is such a slow process that it cant keep up with the demand.

Dangit I wish I could find the article, if anyone finds it on his site please link, its really a eye opener.

http://eddie-coral-adventures.blogspot.com/

 

[spstimie]

I wouldn't blame the sellers. Blame the buyers. Example: I really want a Yacht to retire on, but only 4% of households grossed $200k+ in 2010. So while I was sitting in Florida and California looking at hundreds to thousands of yachts, it dawned on me that whoever owned them owned several of them. When the top 1% has 98% of the $$$, yachts and every status symbol available will be priced for that 1% and not the other 99%.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[Yaten13]

+1 on collectors being lame. Anything that can be grown in captivity shouldn't be collected wild. And yes, if there were a way of guaranteeing this, I would pay the price difference that this would incur. But then again I also tend to buy the smallest viable propagule and grow my own colonies rather than buying big pieces.

 

[djkms]

if there were a way of guaranteeing this, I would pay the price difference that this would incur.

There is. Its called ORA or a fellow reefer buddy.

 

[Cake_Boss]

+1 on collectors being lame. Anything that can be grown in captivity shouldn't be collected wild. And yes, if there were a way of guaranteeing this, I would pay the price difference that this would incur. But then again I also tend to buy the smallest viable propagule and grow my own colonies rather than buying big pieces.

But it is collected from the wild, and will continue to be collected until everyone of our tanks is shut down. We created the demand for coral, now we have to pay for the really sweet pieces. I hate paying for a name, cannot stand it. But if I see something I want, regardless of name, I'm going to get it.
At the same time, lots of the corals I want have names attached and more often than not it's tyree or JF. For example the SCs Superwoman Chalice (see attached pic), I love this thing. If it had a name of not, I'd still want it. If I had the money for it, I'd get it. The fact that its $800+ an eye, doesn't make me want it more, it just makes me want to wait until it drops in price. My .02.

edit: I hate paying for the name, but I really like knowing what a certain coral will look like. Name provides lineage, unless dirtbags rain on the parade with imposters. Lineage is sweet because you know exactly what a coral will look like. If the colors are off, its usually not the said coral.

 

[djkms]

http://reefbuilders.com/2011/01/05/based-frag-pricing-sexy-corals-smoking-crack/

 

[Cake_Boss]

http://reefbuilders.com/2011/01/05/based-frag-pricing-sexy-corals-smoking-crack/

I read that one, it was in response to Mike from SC trying to swing a publicity stunt with Jake right? There's a youtube video of Mike trying to play it off. [video=youtube;F2N6v-lji9Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2N6v-lji9Y[/video]

picture to go along with it.

 

[djkms]

I like when he says "better come with a polyp-job" LOL. Its funny, I always see if you want to play with the big boys bla bla. Guess I will just chill with my little girl tank

 

[120greefman]

I honestly like the names, IE: when someone says I have a miami hurricane for trade I know what they are talking about. etc.... Every plant, tree, weed(not the kind wicked is thinking of), and piece of grass(once again see wicked disclaimer) in my yard has a specific name, why not corals. Now it is up to me if I want to pay the high dollars for them. My favorite part of this is when I was at reefstock, I looked around for hours and ended up buying 9 pieces. Had no idea what the names were on most of them but they had cool colors and I left extremely happy. So to summarize: like corals having names so I know what people are talking about, really don't like high prices so I trade as much as possible, will buy what I like based on visual without knowing a name. So to stir the pot just a little bit, here is a question for all:

Why is it then if names and dollars mean so little to everyone(according to the poll) do we ourselves categorize our corals at the meetings for dbtc?

 

[Yaten13]

Poll says which do you like better names / hype or appearance. Doesn't mean I don't like knowing what to call them. Of course names are a bit meaningless too at some point (only pics matter) because if your polyp even remotely resembles a named/$$$ variety, everyone will try to call their frag that.

 

[hurrafreak]

I honestly like the names, IE: when someone says I have a miami hurricane for trade I know what they are talking about. etc.... Every plant, tree, weed(not the kind wicked is thinking of), and piece of grass(once again see wicked disclaimer) in my yard has a specific name, why not corals. Now it is up to me if I want to pay the high dollars for them. My favorite part of this is when I was at reefstock, I looked around for hours and ended up buying 9 pieces. Had no idea what the names were on most of them but they had cool colors and I left extremely happy. So to summarize: like corals having names so I know what people are talking about, really don't like high prices so I trade as much as possible, will buy what I like based on visual without knowing a name. So to stir the pot just a little bit, here is a question for all:

Why is it then if names and dollars mean so little to everyone(according to the poll) do we ourselves categorize our corals at the meetings for dbtc?

I think what Chad from D&G is trying to get at is the names like "LE." Pretty much everything has a name, xenia, miami hurricane, etc so that we can properly ID what it is. I understand lineage and I also like the idea of seeing where my coral came from, what it will look like, etc, but I think some people have taken advantage of that aspect. Instead of "oh it's an LE, we know where it came from, who first had it, what it looks like, etc" people are clamoring to Steve to get their things named because it increases the price, NOT the awareness. But as long as people continue to buy, they will continue to sell things at crazy prices.

 

[120greefman]

I think what Chad from D&G is trying to get at is the names like "LE." Pretty much everything has a name, xenia, miami hurricane, etc so that we can properly ID what it is. I understand lineage and I also like the idea of seeing where my coral came from, what it will look like, etc, but I think some people have taken advantage of that aspect. Instead of "oh it's an LE, we know where it came from, who first had it, what it looks like, etc" people are clamoring to Steve to get their things named because it increases the price, NOT the awareness. But as long as people continue to buy, they will continue to sell things at crazy prices.

Well said, I agree 100%

 

[WrasseAttack]

Does anybody know the true story of Jason Fox? I was reading one thread on some board where they claimed he's just some douche who raids wholesalers, picks a coral and then he and his friends hype it up. They call themselves the coral mafia or something and then have a good laugh at the saps who buy Jason Fox corals. Did anybody read that? Some people defended him, others not so much.

I'll add to the rant, sellers taking pictures of corals under blue LEDs. Yeah the corals are super flourescent but unless you have the same light set up, you're going to be dissapointed because the coral is not going to look like that in your tank. It's pretty dishonest IMO.

 

[Yaten13]

My favorite photography model is coralpedia. They usually have shots under different lighting (ie flash, MH, actinic only) and tell you what that lighting is.

Btw, I'm convinced that LEDs are the future. I'm a little annoyed that my corals look better in my pico with 9w of LEDs than they do in my DT with 4x 55w T5s. Blue LEDs really are the sh*t.