Hello everyone. My name is Matt Nugent from Loveland. I am new to the world of marine aquariums. I have my tank (90 gallon rectangle, 48x18x22) up and running and have been cycling for about 3 weeks. Porsche from Great White has been walking me through the entire process from day 1. I go there about every 3 days with an entire paper of questions and she has been invaluable. So most of my technical questions are taken care of, but I am looking for opinions on lighting my 90 FOWLR. After my cycle completes I intend on having 3 triggers, a Hawaiian Black, a Humuhumu (rectangle), and a Picasso humu, fingers crossed that Great White can get me all 3 at the same time and they all play nice together. I swam with these three fish everyday for a month in Maui about 12 years ago and have always dreamed of having them in my home. I tried to move there last year from SC, but decided on CO. So, since I can't snorkel with them everyday while living here, it's time to finally have some triggers join my family. For lighting right now I'm using a 4 foot, 4 t8 bulb shop light with a reflector. My main objective with the lighting is to bring out the best color in the fish possible. While money is ALWAYS a concern, my question is strictly about bringing out the best color in those beautiful fish. Should I go with t8 actinic bulbs or should I buy a new led light ? Right now the tank is on an old stand, but I'm going to build an exotic wood stand and hood so I don't want the lighting to detract from the work I'm going to do. Thanks for any input.
Newbie lighting question
- Thread starter Matthew
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First of all welcome!
Man you are opening up a can of worms with this question.... Lighting is a personal thing in this hobby. It will be interesting to see what more experienced people say here (I'm new also) I recently switched from pc to led and couldn't be happier. It also will be interesting to see the fish color aspect vs coral growth which is usually the aspect debated.
Good luck and welcome again to the addiction!
Man you are opening up a can of worms with this question.... Lighting is a personal thing in this hobby. It will be interesting to see what more experienced people say here (I'm new also) I recently switched from pc to led and couldn't be happier. It also will be interesting to see the fish color aspect vs coral growth which is usually the aspect debated.
Good luck and welcome again to the addiction!
If you are only looking for the best color of your fish, LED takes the cake hands down. If coral color and growth is also a factor, it is debatable between halides and LEDs. Between T5s and LEDs, I would go with LEDs any day. You will pay a premium upfront, but LEDs end up being much cheaper in the long run and are much better than T5s and comparable to halides IMO.
SynDen
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No need for LEDs in a FOWLR tank, waste of money imo. The T5 are more then adequate. I run t5s on a mixed reef tank, and the best colors I get on my anthias is with my 2 ATI blue + and 1 ATI purple + bulbs, 1 ATI coral + bulb. It really makes the corals and the fish colors really pop out.
Also you are in good hands if you are working with GW, they know their stuff and great to work with.
Also you are in good hands if you are working with GW, they know their stuff and great to work with.
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Welcome! Sounds like you are off to a great start and already have a good relationship with your local fish store (and a sponsor to boot!).
I would recommend LED for what you are looking to accomplish. Depending on the LED fixture, you can have a great deal of control adjusting the white and blue balance of the light, so you could really tune it to make the fish pop. You can even go the DIY route and build your own LED fixture, selecting the individual diode colors for maximum color in the fish. There are a bunch of people on the forum with a ton of experience building LEDs if you go that route.
I would recommend LED for what you are looking to accomplish. Depending on the LED fixture, you can have a great deal of control adjusting the white and blue balance of the light, so you could really tune it to make the fish pop. You can even go the DIY route and build your own LED fixture, selecting the individual diode colors for maximum color in the fish. There are a bunch of people on the forum with a ton of experience building LEDs if you go that route.
Not a waste of money. They are an investment. Consider a comparison between a 4 bulb t5 fixture and an equivalent par led fixture (80 watts) over 5 years
T5. Assumes running 10 hrs a day and replacing bulbs every 6 months.
Initial fixture cost: $200
Bulb replacement: 15$ ea x 4 bulbs x 10 times = $600
Electric bill = 104 watts for 5 years = 284
TOTAL COST = 1084
LEDs
Initial fixture cost = $400
Electric bill = 80 watts for 5 years = $219
TOTAL COST = $619
You could buy a heck of a nice LED for cheaper than T5s and have money left over to buy a spare in case it ever goes out for less than the T5. This is exactly why I switched.
T5. Assumes running 10 hrs a day and replacing bulbs every 6 months.
Initial fixture cost: $200
Bulb replacement: 15$ ea x 4 bulbs x 10 times = $600
Electric bill = 104 watts for 5 years = 284
TOTAL COST = 1084
LEDs
Initial fixture cost = $400
Electric bill = 80 watts for 5 years = $219
TOTAL COST = $619
You could buy a heck of a nice LED for cheaper than T5s and have money left over to buy a spare in case it ever goes out for less than the T5. This is exactly why I switched.
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I'm actually inclined to agree with SynDen on this one. In a FOWLR tank I don't think the lights would need to be changed every six months. I do however still think that overall LEDs are a better overall value over a 5 year time span. The increased control on color spectrum and reduced heat make them pretty awesome, not to mention the invaluable shimmer factor. But either is viable.
I love the back and forth, I think debate is essential in this world for progress to be made, but I was hoping to steer this conversation back to the difference in the color of the fish. Also, the fixture I have right now is a t8, not a t5, so the question is in the color and brightness of t8 actinic vs led. Thanks for all the info so far. Thanks for the pm blaz, I'll remember that.
I'm def capable of any DIY project, and it seems like led is winning this debate. I was under the impression that a good led for my tank at Great White was $184. Does that sound like it's probably a poor quality ? I know nothing as far as specs or even a brand, I asked how much, she said this will work, it's $184. It seems like a DIY where the lights alone were 450 is probably a much better quality light ?
My guess that they are not the highest quality and on or off. The 450 kit has everything you would need (heatsink, wire, led, drivers, potentiometers...) to get going... You might need a hanging kit depending but the advantage for the leds in my eyes also would be if you did decide in the future to get corals you wouldn't need to change lights... Another thought.
Get 2 of these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MR-120-LED-...080?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43ca56f050
you will get the Best of both worlds. And the spectrum does not rilly matter due to it being a fowlr tank. Just adjust the color to your liking.
Edit: you can swap out the epistar led's to mod it if you feel like doing some modding.
you will get the Best of both worlds. And the spectrum does not rilly matter due to it being a fowlr tank. Just adjust the color to your liking.
Edit: you can swap out the epistar led's to mod it if you feel like doing some modding.
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SynDen
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Well a $184 dollar LED would work for a Fowlr just fine, but if you want to adjust the colors, dimming options, better quality lights, higher par values ect... then that is where the price differences come from. But honestly for Fowlr tank the ones at GW or even the ones Seth posted up there should be more then adequate to get the fish colors the way you want.
For a FOWLR I'd run T5s/T8s without hesitation. Yes, LEDs are nice, but you can get away with an inexpensive fluorescent fixture and not have to worry about replacing bulbs nearly as often as you would for a reef tank.
I ran T5s over my fresh water planted fish tanks, and only ever replaced them when they actually burnt out...most of my bulbs lasted 18 months easily. A dimmable LED fixture will give you the opportunity to easily play with the spectrum and get the best color. They also reduce heat and are more energy efficient. If those factors suit your goals/needs, then sure, why not invest in LEDs. Fluorescent bulbs can do the job just as well though, and if you already have a fixture then it's just less money to invest in the hobby.
There really is no right or wrong answer...everyone will have an opinion on this. If you look at bulbs with a spectrum similar to the Coralife "Colormax" bulb, it puts out a pinkish hue that has a spectrum that favors the red wavelengths. It's not something commonly used in a reef tank, but in a FOWLR it would do a lot to bring out some of the colors in the fish that you wouldn't generally get going strictly with a combo of bulbs designed for reef lighting that favor the blue side of the spectrum.
Just something else to consider in your plans...but tank appearance is all about personal preference. I really like a balance of red and blue light over a FOWLR tank that's closer to a 10k spectrum. I personally think my fish look their best when the sunlight passes through my curtains in the morning and the soft light hits the tank before the LEDs kick on
P.S. WELCOME!!
I ran T5s over my fresh water planted fish tanks, and only ever replaced them when they actually burnt out...most of my bulbs lasted 18 months easily. A dimmable LED fixture will give you the opportunity to easily play with the spectrum and get the best color. They also reduce heat and are more energy efficient. If those factors suit your goals/needs, then sure, why not invest in LEDs. Fluorescent bulbs can do the job just as well though, and if you already have a fixture then it's just less money to invest in the hobby.
There really is no right or wrong answer...everyone will have an opinion on this. If you look at bulbs with a spectrum similar to the Coralife "Colormax" bulb, it puts out a pinkish hue that has a spectrum that favors the red wavelengths. It's not something commonly used in a reef tank, but in a FOWLR it would do a lot to bring out some of the colors in the fish that you wouldn't generally get going strictly with a combo of bulbs designed for reef lighting that favor the blue side of the spectrum.
Just something else to consider in your plans...but tank appearance is all about personal preference. I really like a balance of red and blue light over a FOWLR tank that's closer to a 10k spectrum. I personally think my fish look their best when the sunlight passes through my curtains in the morning and the soft light hits the tank before the LEDs kick on
P.S. WELCOME!!
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If you happen to get those led's Seth mentioned, you might look into popping off the optics. They tend to direct the light more downward. I removed mine and was happy with the spread of the lighting. I have had all types of lighting over the years and some of the best color came from regular vho bulbs 50/50. My wife loved how the color on the fish would just pop out at you. So if you can find some bulbs, give them a try since you already have the fixture.
Welcome! Couple things: Porsche is knowledgeable isn't she, I went with an 8' office light (like the kind in the drop ceilings) and Dioder LEDS from IKEA for my 250 FOWLR (96x18x30), and I'd research more on that fish combo before proceeding.
The Dioders (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/art/50192365/) did the job at night and during low light hours. I wanted the occasional coral in my tank and my lights were not sufficient for that. I'd opt for better lights than the shop light if you are even thinking about growing coral. Also t8 lights seemed to be awesome at growing algae.
As for the triggers, a quick google search (ei. Keeping triggerfish together) will turn you on to more info.
Also, I'm no FOWLR expert, but I noticed fish love to swim; I'd start thinking about a longer tank and what kind of aquascaping you'll need. I'm sure Vince and/or Porsche could help you with that.
The Dioders (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/art/50192365/) did the job at night and during low light hours. I wanted the occasional coral in my tank and my lights were not sufficient for that. I'd opt for better lights than the shop light if you are even thinking about growing coral. Also t8 lights seemed to be awesome at growing algae.
As for the triggers, a quick google search (ei. Keeping triggerfish together) will turn you on to more info.
Also, I'm no FOWLR expert, but I noticed fish love to swim; I'd start thinking about a longer tank and what kind of aquascaping you'll need. I'm sure Vince and/or Porsche could help you with that.
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