Dave's 200G FOWLR Build

[daverf]

OK...here I go...shout out to everyone who's been giving me awesome advice/inspiration on getting going...

Been a long road already. I started SW tanks about 10 years ago, doing undergravel filters and other ridiculous stuff, got pretty good at killing fish slowly. I decided to start over early this year. Here's a recap:

Bought a 135G tank then changed my plan and sold (too small)...Got ~200 lbs of almost-dead live rock and cooked for 3 months, gave up and decided to acid wash, saw the rock at Catfish Charlie's (great prices and flown from Fiji) then sold what I had...killed a 5" Volitans and 2.5" Hippo in QT (well, Hippo beat the heck out of the Lion, no joke, bit off all dorsal spike skin until only the transparent barbs were showing, then Ich took over due to my other mistakes). Now I have a main tank (see attached pic).

Here's my plan:
200G tank shown.
55G sump (thanks Petco) with refugium.
ASM 4? skimmer (but right now an ASM 3G...thanks Craigar, rockstar advice too!).
Marineland Double Bright LED 48-60" (don't laugh, I may upgrade down the road, but since I'm not doing reef I thought this was an OK way to start).
RODI Coralife Unit.

29G QT - JBJ Nano HQI with DIY LED installed (thanks Wicked? I bought the tank from Bandit52 / Brooke. I think this was your tank??)
QT skimmer - AquaC Remora

10G HT

216# of Fiji Live Rock (100# now sitting in a 100G Stock tank, more should be on the way soon).
Seachem Pearl Beach Sand.

Stocking list:
Porcupine Puffer
Yellowtail Coris Wrasse (C. Gaimard)
Hippo Tang
Bicolor Goatfish
Eibli Angel (in QT tank now).
2 Maroon Clowns (in QT tank now, trying to pair, will get rid of 1 if that doesn't work out)
3 Engineer Gobies (in QT tank now)

Considering one other maybe - Yellow or Desjardini Tang, Blue jaw trigger, Harlequin Tusk, Dampieri Grouper

At this point, I'm just getting started with the 200G setup. I've had the QT running for awhile.

Obviously I'm doing this thread because I need help! So let me know your advice, if you have it. I'll probably take it. If I don't, and pay the consequences for it, feel free to laugh and say "told you so jackass".

I'll try to throw more pictures up of what i have already, or have done, and get some stuff up on the sump as I'll be interested in help there.

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[BPreefer]

Nice tank, looks like a perfect fit. Good luck with the build

 

[daverf]

Thanks Brent!

Here's the the 100# live rock (Fiji premium), ready to go. Just did a water change so water is cloudy. This stuff came over looking awesome (some sponges and macroalgae held on for the ride), incredible price, and not a big cycle. Although I did 100% water changes daily until the ammonia/nitrates dropped to 0 (about 4 days). Fighting phosphates, not sure why, but that's why I got the brown stuff on a few pieces now. Anyone else see high phosphates from fresh LR from the sea? I wonder if I'm fighting myself from phosphate residue in the stock tank after all my other running in circles with the other rock.

I just ordered another 50# of premium and 66# of hand select tukani from Ron at Catfish Charlie's...premium comes on Thursday, hand select next Thursday. Can't wait to see the hand select, they schedule the harvest after you place an order and I get it straight from the sea after boat/pack/flight to LA/flight to DIA.

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[daverf]

Fish in QT...

First pic is the Caribbean LR I got from Aquamart. Incredible stuff! Loaded with life, had some stars, feather dusters, little anenomes, worms, a crab, halimeda.

After I put the Eibli Angel in, he ate it all. Even the 2 peppermint shrimps I threw in to make sure I didn't have aiptasia on it (they were almost as big as him). He ate them right after a water change, so I'm assuming he pounced when they were molting.

He also beat the crap out of the bigger Juvi maroon, as you can see in the pic (shredded his dorsal and a pectoral fin). The engineer gobies are afraid of him. Now I use egg crate to keep em separated.

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[daverf]

Plumbing questions...

Here's a pic of my bulkhead and returns.

The bulkhead is 2 1/4" from outside thread to other outside thread. No hardware stores around me, not even the Depot, have fittings this big. I am assuming I need to plumb with PVC that is 2 1/4" on the inside. Am I assuming wrong or do I need to find a specialty place? Can someone recommend a place? Even better if by East Denver.

I want to do all PVC and hopefully replace the barbs under the tank for the returns. Can someone give me suggestions on this based on the pics? Is this possible to do without cutting into the return piping? I'll just do flexible hosing if I would need to cut.

OK last question for now on the plumbing. I'm worried about only one overflow due to having a backup/second in case it clogs. What should I do to prevent that?

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[CRW Reef]

Not sure where you are located, but I would take all the bulk heads out and take them to a local fish store and get new ones. From what I understand is you would like to hard pipe everything and you can get bulkheads with inside threads for all 3. Shooting from the hip I would say that you prob need 1 -1.5" and 2 - 3/4" (could be 1" ) fipt bulkheads. I believe you can get these from Aqua Mart, Elite and or Aquatic Art which are all sponsor vendors here.

As a wise reefer once told me always replace bulk heads each and everytime you move a tank. Just my $.02

 

[daverf]

Chad, thank you, great advice to pass along. I'll do this. I tried to remove the barbed fitting bulkhead for the return, seems to loosen then get really tight (afraid to turn more due to cracking it). I'll see if the LFS can advise, or do you know what this is from the 2nd picture I posted of the overflow PVC?

 

[daverf]

Sump sketch...OK I really need help here...

OK all, can you let me know what you think of this? I added the gallonage, this gives me room for 15G of tank overflow. I have 5G that will come from overflow, then I'll have to play with the returns to make sure they won't backsiphon more than 10.

The one thing I don't know is how to estimate the water level for the return pump area? I have a Marineland Pump 5500 submersible, max flow 1385gph but looks like it will be 600gph at 5' head. This is probably way too low?

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[Craigar]

Hey Dave you could plumb in a check valve in your return do u don't get that siphon during a power outage

 

[daverf]

Craig, thanks, will do.

 

[daverf]

Plumbing etc…

So I just put 700+ miles on my car…running in circles on plumbing etc.. looking for a drain bulkhead (LFSs, plumbing, irrigation supply stores, etc) and not finding what I thought I needed, then had one overnighted on Amazon, then found out I had been mis-measuring the bulkhead. Super.

Finally got the right bulkhead at Aquatic Art!

I hard-plumbed for the existing return/overflow holes only to pull it all out and start over. I knew there is minor risk of serious issues with one overflow clogs. So I thought I'd sleep better at night if I pulled everything new/old off the tank that wasn’t acrylic and replumb a bean animal overflow with the return behind and over the top of the aquarium.

I also let the tank circulate vinegar, to get deposits off. I tried to remove scratches with a buffing wheel and somehow put a massive gash right in the middle of the front display. So I switched to sandpaper and am finishing that right now. I won't try the buffing wheel ever again.

I also swapped out my first round of fish (in QT). Traded everything for 2 Engineer Gobies and 1 Maroon.

Next up is finishing the sanding, filling the tank, and picking up the hand select live rock tomorrow from Catfish Charlie’s. If his wholesale source is truthful, then it was collected 12 hours ago and will be in my stock tank in 12 hours. I look forward to seeing it.

The pictures show the before/after for the overflow/return bulkheads.They also show all the plumbing I installed then ripped out.. .
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[ShelbyJK500]

LOL...that last picture looks like a fraction of my plumbing nightmare. I also put in HOURS and HOURS into my plumbing, planning and overthinking it. Probably not 700 miles worth though.

Anyhow, looks like a great start, and GREAT decision to go with the bean-animal, IMO. My return looked MUCH like yours with the "T". I ended up scrapping mine and going with flex tubing from the "T" to the nozzles basically. Makes it ALOT easier should any clogging or other issues come up with the return. You may have fabricated yours for ease of use though, just can't tell.

What do you mean by "buffing wheel"....like a mechanical rotary/orbital buffer? I did my first tank by hand and after about 15 hours of sanding by hand, I couldn't take it anymore and now use a small car orbital buffer. Makes childs work out of buffing acrylic. BUT, if it gets away from you it can cause major headaches.

OH, I was gonna ask if your 200g is on the main floor of your house, or second story? Weight/support reasons for asking...

 

[daverf]

Awesomeness Evan! Yes I recall some of your issues from reading all of your threads a while back. The detail you put into your journeys is excellent for young padawans like me.

I did have more plumbing ripped out than the picture shows, but I can only imagine how much you went through on your build. Insanity!

I actually used a polishing wheel on my electric screwdriver. This was my first run with acrylic scratch removal. I tried to follow advice that I must have half-remembered...and royally effed up and/or wasted my time. Maybe I used the wrong compound. I didn't research that enough and got hasty. In all the sanding wasn't too bad, as the front display was in pretty good shape. The sides had coralline marring all over them, but the vinegar got most of it off and I got much of the cloudiness off. Aye carumba, my ears are still buzzing from sitting inside the tank for a few hours. I sanded to 1500 grit tonight, and will pick up some finer paper to finish the job then use the novus polishes. Do you think that's a good plan? Let me know your advice!

The tank is in my basement, on concrete slab. I actually debated pulling up the carpet and re-leveling the concrete pad, as I measured a 1/4" slope across the run of the tank. I got quite a few opinions on this, and decided it was in tolerable range (and possible that I may make it worse on accident).

 

[daverf]

Also, on the plumbing, I am using braided PVC for the return pump, to connect to the PVC on the left side of the sump (in the picture). Everything else is hard-plumbed, and I ran the secondary/backup bean animal drain so that it will hit the low-water return pump chamber in my sump. This is so I can hear the water fall if the failover drain ever kicks in.

I guess I didn't research (or think through) the benefit of mixed flexible tubing. I mostly took the risk-averse route (now hopefully my drip test tomorrow shows nothing leaks...lol...I'll check into a mental hospital after all my tank craziness over the last week). The PVC also required more 90 degree turns throughout the return plumbing, which will add up to lost flow rate. Bummer...oh well...too late.

Maybe my risk of clogs is lower with my stocking plan? FOWLR big fish / predator...so no little guys to get sucked into overflows, etc.

 

[daverf]

Scratch Insanity and Sanding...

Had some helpers out there...Gracias Craig, Evan, Chad... I decided to do "a little buffing" after many long nights, to remove a few scratches. I tried to follow instructions given to me on using jeweler's rouge, a buffing wheel, and an electric screwdriver. In a split second, it got away from me and caused some slight gouges in the middle front panel...Will NEVER use an electric screwdriver again for scratches.

Then I bought sandpaper, starting at 150 grit (based on seeing this used for some gouges online)...made a bigger and bigger problem in using a heavy grit where it wasn't needed...see what my tank looked like. I thought I destroyed it and wanted to die.

I was afraid to touch it again, and called Tom from Aquamart to see if I could get a visit and opinion. Priceless for peace of mind! He convinced me to use a random orbital sander, and helped me get some impossible-to-find sanding pads. 6 hours later, tank looked fantastic. Whew. Back in the game.

I also picked up an ASM G4 skimmer. Since I basically hard-plumbed my sump into the stand (wups), and can barely wiggle it in, I've scratched my baffled sump plan. Instead I will do a no-baffle sump, and build an eggcrate basket to keep my macroalgae in. I'll get some DSB patches in the display tank too, so I should be covered for not having a full-on refugium.

I also picked up a LR column someone built and got rid of at Aquamart. The Aquamart crew is bad *** squared!

Also tested plumbing, check. Ready to roll...

I'll be taking a breather while I'm on vacation, but hope to get some fish going soon.

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[daverf]

Ready to go...new stocking list...

I had a late night before hitting the road, and got all sand/rock/water into the tank/sump. All was running smoothly when I left, and cloudiness from sand was still in the tank. I will be back Saturday night. I changed the stocking list, and have some of the fish on order through LFSs.

List:

2 Engineer Gobies (in QT about 9" each)
Maroon Clown (in QT about 4")
Australian Harlequin Tusk (on it's way to DIA to LFS about 7")
Hippo Tang (on hold at LFS about 4")
Porcupine Puffer (on hold at LFS about 6")
Freckled Hawkfish (no plan yet, will go in last)
Paddlefin Wrasse - I may try a harem. I found a 6" terminal male at LFS, and may try to find 2 initial stage females. In the least I'll do the male...so we'll see...

 

[daverf]

7" Harlequin Tusk on the floor...

Have to update my build thread but here's a quick update. You can see the picture of the top of my tank, covered with eggcrate. Somehow the 7" tusk still managed to torpedo himself out the tank and on the floor, behind the tank.

What a lucky save. I had let a neighbor kid downstairs to look at the new fish tank...he ran back up right away and said, I think there's a fish on the floor behind the tank...I thought, not possible, but ran down and found the tusk...thought he was dead at first, and that I'd need to drain the sump and pull it out to reach him, but luckily I blind-netted him behind the sump. I held him directly in the return flow for 3 minutes before he resuscitated and swam into the rocks.

He's swimming around now like nothing happened, except some bumps and bruises. Hope he's OK. Now I have weights on top of the egg crate.

Now to find out if tank stress caused him to try and break out of jail.
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[daverf]

OK, here's more on my progress.

Fish in the tank...

I came back from a trip 8 days ago, saw the tank needed some final rock/sand adjustments but that it was otherwise ready to go. Levels checked out great, etc. I rounded up my final list of fish, and decided that I would put them all in as close as possible at the same time. I thought I could skip the QT route, since I found each fish I wanted at a LFS and knew they'd been in fish tanks for at least 4 months. So I got them all, acclimated, freshwater dipped (some w/ copper) and sent them in...same list as above except no hawkfish and a 4" Bluehead Wrasse instead of the Paddlefin Wrasse.

I had been debating getting a few more into the tank, but have decided to keep the crew exactly as they are. I'm still dealing with settling aggression and territoriality, and since these guys all have room to grow I don't want any crowding. Also, I've noticed the 2 tank favorites (puffer, tusk), also the biggest, are major wimps. I posted about my aggression issues with the hippo and now the trigger in a Fish forum thread.
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[daverf]

ICH...

Well I didn't expect Ich in taking the stocking approach I mentioned in the last post...but the joke was on me (yeah yeah I know, denial is not the name of a river). That said, I had researched Quinine treatments of FOWLR display tanks, and thought I'd be willing to risk this so that I could hopefully take advantage of putting everyone in at the same time...so I was somewhat aware that could have Ich to deal with. Well that whole same-time-intro was a lose-lose situation, because the simultaneous intro both contributed to an Ich outbreak and didn't help the aggression/compatibility at all...oh well, learn from mistakes...

So I have been running Crypto-Pro in my tank. I called the manufacturer and spoke to the pharmacist to get a recommendation on how to run it. I also email a lot with Wetwebmedia. So far, I have excellent results to report. I noticed an Ammonia spike after 24 hours, to 2ppm (yikes). I managed with a quick 45% water change (that is my maximum capacity), Seachem Prime (ammonia detoxifier), and lots of TopFin Bacterial Supplement. I was back to 0 in about 36 hours, and has stayed at 0. Phew.

Otherwise I have seen some algae die-off, but surprisingly spotted a peppermint shrimp that has held on for the treatment in my rock.

So here's the net impact I expect. On the con side, the algae may all die off and it will take some time to get the quinine fully out of the tank (put skimmer/charcoal back in tank) . On the pro side, the system will be Ich free. Obviously a tank can't do this with inverts/corals, but in the grand scheme of things for a FOWLR, I'd recommend this approach over a staggered QT/intro run with many fishes. I'm no expert and I'm sure many would disagree, but you do read stories all the time about hobbyists that follow good QT practice to perfection but still battle Ich in their display.

If anyone would ever try this for a FOWLR, my only other advice would be to have the following ready the instant you start running Quinine -have the biggest water change reserve ready that you can do, lots of bacterial supplement, lots of ammonia detoxifier.

 

[Craigar]

Let's see some updated pics