Dave's 200G FOWLR Build
- Thread starter daverf
- Start date
Well I fell off the earth for a while there... Life caught up big-time and some pretty big tank setbacks that put me back to ground zero...and waiting...so not much to report.
The Ich beat the system up pretty bad. Everyone kicked it except the Bluehead wrasse - 2 engineer gobies, maroon clown, blue jaw, blue tang, harlequin tusk, porcupine puffer. Woah.
All because I skipped one step for the first time ever in my keeping a fish tank... One fish - ONE DAMN FISH! - not quarantined for the appropriate time. The harlequin tusk. And I let the LFS talk me into how QT could be more harm than good for the fish...he's never quarantined and never had any problems...etc... But, I take responsibility for my mistake, I knew then as well as I know now that it's not a step to skip.
Anyway, after the tusk carpet surfed and barely survived, it did a 14 day death dance, then one after another went. QUARANTINE! EVERY. FISH. NO. EXCEPTIONS. Of course there's no new suggestions there (that was me talking to myself).
Also, I ran display tank treatments of Quinine, then Cupramine. My tests showed copper running very high (.5), but I didn't see much of an Ich slowdown once it got bad. I attribute the problem to using the treatments with live rock. End of day, probably was enough to keep the fish under constant stress (and let the disease run through everyone), but obviously not enough to stop the Ich. So, my experience in running main tank treatments was not good. Seems odds are about 50% on this working, as there are lots of stories about it running successfully.
I may put the Bluehead wrasse up for sale. No signs of Ich for six weeks, copper still running in the tank and low salinity (not quite hypo), and it is thriving in its digs. It is almost terminal phase coloring, looking gorgeous, very active and curious. Anyway, I'll post a FS on him soon if I part with him. I just want to start from scratch - he's probably going to be the aggressor in the tank, and is one of my last-choice fish, so I'll get a new/smaller one when I get through my other stocking plan fish.
Also, I want to run the tank fallow while I raise a few small engineer gobies back to a size big enough to keep them out of trouble with my rowdy stocking list. I'll raise the copper a little (before I run Cuprisorb / GAC / skimmer), keep the temp high, and maybe run hypo as well. Let me know any suggestions.
The Ich beat the system up pretty bad. Everyone kicked it except the Bluehead wrasse - 2 engineer gobies, maroon clown, blue jaw, blue tang, harlequin tusk, porcupine puffer. Woah.
All because I skipped one step for the first time ever in my keeping a fish tank... One fish - ONE DAMN FISH! - not quarantined for the appropriate time. The harlequin tusk. And I let the LFS talk me into how QT could be more harm than good for the fish...he's never quarantined and never had any problems...etc... But, I take responsibility for my mistake, I knew then as well as I know now that it's not a step to skip.
Anyway, after the tusk carpet surfed and barely survived, it did a 14 day death dance, then one after another went. QUARANTINE! EVERY. FISH. NO. EXCEPTIONS. Of course there's no new suggestions there (that was me talking to myself).
Also, I ran display tank treatments of Quinine, then Cupramine. My tests showed copper running very high (.5), but I didn't see much of an Ich slowdown once it got bad. I attribute the problem to using the treatments with live rock. End of day, probably was enough to keep the fish under constant stress (and let the disease run through everyone), but obviously not enough to stop the Ich. So, my experience in running main tank treatments was not good. Seems odds are about 50% on this working, as there are lots of stories about it running successfully.
I may put the Bluehead wrasse up for sale. No signs of Ich for six weeks, copper still running in the tank and low salinity (not quite hypo), and it is thriving in its digs. It is almost terminal phase coloring, looking gorgeous, very active and curious. Anyway, I'll post a FS on him soon if I part with him. I just want to start from scratch - he's probably going to be the aggressor in the tank, and is one of my last-choice fish, so I'll get a new/smaller one when I get through my other stocking plan fish.
Also, I want to run the tank fallow while I raise a few small engineer gobies back to a size big enough to keep them out of trouble with my rowdy stocking list. I'll raise the copper a little (before I run Cuprisorb / GAC / skimmer), keep the temp high, and maybe run hypo as well. Let me know any suggestions.
Reboot...
Sump: I added a small deep sand bed/LR rubble (the Rubbermaid container), and played around with the water line and skimmer platform to get a perfect water level. Getting auto top off, skimmer drain cup, and lighting/chaeto (in eggcrate basket) ready to go. I also have a temperature controller and some media thrown in there (not really inline or anything): Cuprisorb, Purigen, Carbon.
[attachment=62875:name]
Display: There are a few aquascape changes. You can see my bluehead wrasse (about 3-4" now and getting close to terminal male color) zooming around on the left side.
[attachment=62876:name]
Here are the new guys, ordered from LA Diver's Den, pics from the 29G nano quarantine. Both are about 4". The porcupine puffer bit off a few spines from the bluelined rabbitfish, yowza, so I dipped the rabbit in FW with Paraguard then moved to the display sooner than planned.
[attachment=62879:name]
The rabbitfish has been doing OK, hiding mostly in the display, but comes out to eat. I did notice it has bumps under its skin on both sides of its body now, maybe worms/flukes? I hope he kicks it. Also lost a little slime coat. The porc's taking some chomps on him hasn't really helped him get settled.
Next fish up on the stocking list (but in no rush this time):
-Stocky/Chinese Hawkfish (or freckled hawk if I can't find a stocky, they are really hard to find)
-Volitan Lionfish
-Harlequin Tusk......or a Yellowtail Coris, having lost a gorgeous big tusk a few months ago, I don't know if I can afford another one
-GS Maroon Clown, if I can find one big enough.
-Engineer Gobies (2)...may do a zebra moray eel instead of the gobies if I can't find the right pair.
Sump: I added a small deep sand bed/LR rubble (the Rubbermaid container), and played around with the water line and skimmer platform to get a perfect water level. Getting auto top off, skimmer drain cup, and lighting/chaeto (in eggcrate basket) ready to go. I also have a temperature controller and some media thrown in there (not really inline or anything): Cuprisorb, Purigen, Carbon.
[attachment=62875:name]
Display: There are a few aquascape changes. You can see my bluehead wrasse (about 3-4" now and getting close to terminal male color) zooming around on the left side.
[attachment=62876:name]
Here are the new guys, ordered from LA Diver's Den, pics from the 29G nano quarantine. Both are about 4". The porcupine puffer bit off a few spines from the bluelined rabbitfish, yowza, so I dipped the rabbit in FW with Paraguard then moved to the display sooner than planned.
[attachment=62879:name]
The rabbitfish has been doing OK, hiding mostly in the display, but comes out to eat. I did notice it has bumps under its skin on both sides of its body now, maybe worms/flukes? I hope he kicks it. Also lost a little slime coat. The porc's taking some chomps on him hasn't really helped him get settled.
Next fish up on the stocking list (but in no rush this time):
-Stocky/Chinese Hawkfish (or freckled hawk if I can't find a stocky, they are really hard to find)
-Volitan Lionfish
-Harlequin Tusk......or a Yellowtail Coris, having lost a gorgeous big tusk a few months ago, I don't know if I can afford another one
-GS Maroon Clown, if I can find one big enough.
-Engineer Gobies (2)...may do a zebra moray eel instead of the gobies if I can't find the right pair.
Wow, my phone takes bad pics. I should use my wife's camera and repost some of these, especially of the fish.
Water changing station: I bought a garden hose reel from the 'Depot, 75' clear vinyl tubing online, and specialty fittings online to patch this all from a water change pump to the hose end. I use a pump that is the same as my aquarium's return pump, so that I have a backup in case the primary fails (and it makes changes quick - Quiet One 5000). Water changes are a breeze - drop the pump into the sump and run the hose to the bathroom, then move the pump to the new saltwater and the hose to the sump. Once in awhile I siphon the main tank too. 45G change takes me about 30 minutes.
[attachment=62880:name]
Water changing station: I bought a garden hose reel from the 'Depot, 75' clear vinyl tubing online, and specialty fittings online to patch this all from a water change pump to the hose end. I use a pump that is the same as my aquarium's return pump, so that I have a backup in case the primary fails (and it makes changes quick - Quiet One 5000). Water changes are a breeze - drop the pump into the sump and run the hose to the bathroom, then move the pump to the new saltwater and the hose to the sump. Once in awhile I siphon the main tank too. 45G change takes me about 30 minutes.
[attachment=62880:name]
thanks RP, yeah it's great. it actually took forever to get it set up as i had to try all different kinds of conversion/specialty fittings. i don't recommend going above 1/2" vinyl hose if you're going to do it, as everything gets very expensive/bulky and hard to find in converting to/from garden hose fittings (and also you can use microvalves if you keep it to 1/2"). of course, the hose size depends on how big you want to go with the pump. mine is all set up for 3/4" hose, the water changes are super quick (most of the time i spend is rechecking all the fittings and getting kinks out before i turn the pump on).
or try using an RV hose/potable water garden hose with the metal ends cut off? now that would be awesome and way cheaper than all the vinyl conversion, and more kink-free.
i had to order fittings from flexpvc.com and usplastics.com.
or try using an RV hose/potable water garden hose with the metal ends cut off? now that would be awesome and way cheaper than all the vinyl conversion, and more kink-free.
i had to order fittings from flexpvc.com and usplastics.com.
Auto Top-off: JBJ ATO, pump, and the Kingsford Charcoal Caddy! This is a perfect-sized ATO water reservoir and is food grade PP plastic. 10"l x 19"d x 20"h. This would fit like a glove inside the stand for most anyone with a 2' deep tank, 30" high stand, and a sump that is 1' less width than their tank. Holds about 16 gallons.
[attachment=62952:name]
[attachment=62952:name]
Borrowed my wife's camera and got a few pics of my fish...tank has - Aussie harlequin tusk, volitans lion, porcupine puffer, bluehead wrasse, bluelined rabbitfish, chinese (stocky) hawkfish, engineer goby, tessalata eel (goner when I can catch him).
All between 4.5-6"...you can play "find it" with yourself and see if you can find all the eel damage...
[attachment=63144:name]
Interestingly, all purple coralline on my rocks died when I started display hypo treatment, and there's some funky algal stuff going on in there...
Otherwise I've got a few posts out there on what else is going on in my tank. Hyposalinity week 2, may shuffle a few stocking list entries (swap guys I can catch including eel from hell), just fired up a 180G capacity upflow algae scrubber (with pics on separate post).
All between 4.5-6"...you can play "find it" with yourself and see if you can find all the eel damage...
[attachment=63144:name]
Interestingly, all purple coralline on my rocks died when I started display hypo treatment, and there's some funky algal stuff going on in there...
Otherwise I've got a few posts out there on what else is going on in my tank. Hyposalinity week 2, may shuffle a few stocking list entries (swap guys I can catch including eel from hell), just fired up a 180G capacity upflow algae scrubber (with pics on separate post).
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Here's a pic of some of the crew. I added a Marineland Reef Capable LED, after finding a good deal, to my ML Double Bright LED, worked out great for my fish only tank. Very happy, and didn't break the bank on lighting.
[attachment=63566:name]
Current stocking:
Volitans lion
Porcupine puffer
Harlequin tusk
Navarchus angel
Threadfin butterfly
Bluehead wrasse
Engineer goby
Planning to add:
Red coris wrasse
Goatfish - bicolor, dash-and-dot, or both
Foxface lo (iffy on whether I want)
[attachment=63566:name]
Current stocking:
Volitans lion
Porcupine puffer
Harlequin tusk
Navarchus angel
Threadfin butterfly
Bluehead wrasse
Engineer goby
Planning to add:
Red coris wrasse
Goatfish - bicolor, dash-and-dot, or both
Foxface lo (iffy on whether I want)
Yeah, an awesome fish for sure.
I've had problems with angels, even the butterfly, in my tank. I'm starting to think that LR nippers can turn more aggressive if they don't have anything to pick at on the rock. This is my 3rd large angel in the tank, as you can see the smallest fish (with the butterfly). Even though they're small, they are both still are very aggressive and go after everyone else. Making life hell for the porc puffer, 7", who I now have sequestered to give a break from all the picking they do.
I may try to get more seeded LR in the tank soon. Right now, my LR really only has bio filtration since I've been running hypo in my tank. All other life died off.
Here's a few more pics...tusk coloring is awesome...
[attachment=63576:name]
I've had problems with angels, even the butterfly, in my tank. I'm starting to think that LR nippers can turn more aggressive if they don't have anything to pick at on the rock. This is my 3rd large angel in the tank, as you can see the smallest fish (with the butterfly). Even though they're small, they are both still are very aggressive and go after everyone else. Making life hell for the porc puffer, 7", who I now have sequestered to give a break from all the picking they do.
I may try to get more seeded LR in the tank soon. Right now, my LR really only has bio filtration since I've been running hypo in my tank. All other life died off.
Here's a few more pics...tusk coloring is awesome...
[attachment=63576:name]
OK, at this point I think I'm done acquiring fish...few pics of the tank build, still in process.
Got a red coris wrasse, added to the display:
[attachment=63673:name]
Here's the tusk running around the tank with a silverside like a dog bone. Which always gets the lion's attention:
[attachment=63675:name]
Full tank shot. The eggcrate is to keep the puffer separated for awhile, since the butterfly and angel were picking on him. Still fighting a nuisance growth (cyano w/ bubbles? bubble algae? I don't know, anyone have a guess?). I'll redo the aquascaping and reseed the tank with some coralline covered rocks in time. I first want to kick the growth problem and get back to normal salinity.
[attachment=63676:name]
Finally, the goatfish. I had a hard time tracking these down, so ordered these online. They came in WAY smaller than I expected, so they'll stay in my QT tank until they get big enough to play with the big boys. Goats are awesome! Bicolor and dash-and-dot goatfish:
[attachment=63677:name]
Display Tank Disease: Hopefully I'm out of the Ich woods. I am getting back to normal salinity this week. I still see spots come and go, but my theory is that running low salinity for so long helped the fish build some natural resistance, and infestation will hopefully not occur. I do have Chloroquine Phosphate on hand, if needed. I am afraid that sustained, low salinity causes too much of a health problem for the fish (also confirmed by an article DJKMS posted today on salinity and kidney failure). So, I want to get out for good.
Got a red coris wrasse, added to the display:
[attachment=63673:name]
Here's the tusk running around the tank with a silverside like a dog bone. Which always gets the lion's attention:
[attachment=63675:name]
Full tank shot. The eggcrate is to keep the puffer separated for awhile, since the butterfly and angel were picking on him. Still fighting a nuisance growth (cyano w/ bubbles? bubble algae? I don't know, anyone have a guess?). I'll redo the aquascaping and reseed the tank with some coralline covered rocks in time. I first want to kick the growth problem and get back to normal salinity.
[attachment=63676:name]
Finally, the goatfish. I had a hard time tracking these down, so ordered these online. They came in WAY smaller than I expected, so they'll stay in my QT tank until they get big enough to play with the big boys. Goats are awesome! Bicolor and dash-and-dot goatfish:
[attachment=63677:name]
Display Tank Disease: Hopefully I'm out of the Ich woods. I am getting back to normal salinity this week. I still see spots come and go, but my theory is that running low salinity for so long helped the fish build some natural resistance, and infestation will hopefully not occur. I do have Chloroquine Phosphate on hand, if needed. I am afraid that sustained, low salinity causes too much of a health problem for the fish (also confirmed by an article DJKMS posted today on salinity and kidney failure). So, I want to get out for good.
Sorry lack of updates, thanks for the push Andy!
Dealing with a few issues.
Cyano sucks! I'm getting a few DIY reactors online...will post more (pics etc) and covered these on other threads. Biopellet, Sulfur, and Carbon. These will hopefully get my DOCs, nitrates, phosphates way down for good (and cut down on all the water changes I do.
I'm done with large angels! They suck! Maybe it's cause my 200G is only 5 feet long...or because my live rock is pretty bare (except nitrifying bacteria) and perhaps this causes angels to get more aggressive when they can't graze? They pick on the puffer and wrasses. I'm on the 3rd one now, a small/medium navarchus. He's going to get ejected for shredding the tusk's pectoral fins (and now it has some Ich spots). The butterfly too, it picks on the puffer. Since the puffer is the star of the tank, unfortunately my other-fish options are pretty limited.
I'll try to get more pics and details up soon...
Dealing with a few issues.
Cyano sucks! I'm getting a few DIY reactors online...will post more (pics etc) and covered these on other threads. Biopellet, Sulfur, and Carbon. These will hopefully get my DOCs, nitrates, phosphates way down for good (and cut down on all the water changes I do.
I'm done with large angels! They suck! Maybe it's cause my 200G is only 5 feet long...or because my live rock is pretty bare (except nitrifying bacteria) and perhaps this causes angels to get more aggressive when they can't graze? They pick on the puffer and wrasses. I'm on the 3rd one now, a small/medium navarchus. He's going to get ejected for shredding the tusk's pectoral fins (and now it has some Ich spots). The butterfly too, it picks on the puffer. Since the puffer is the star of the tank, unfortunately my other-fish options are pretty limited.
I'll try to get more pics and details up soon...
Pics - at the moment it is insane cyano green and I still haven't got the puffer isolation eggcrate out. I'll try to get some more pics of my fish and the sump with the new reactors.
Zebra eel - Not sure. If I have to chase another eel out of my tank, I may use a sledge hammer to do it. I had to pull my whole tank apart to track down a tessalata and lost my interest in eels. I guess most people who have zebras say they're really docile, and they're not piscivorous by nature, so maybe I'll try...I'm on the fence...
I may try a changing or small adult annularis. My experience with large angels so far has been...as soon as they get settled...they're not OK with any other big fish...and they are bad with puffers. I tried a big annularis, big navarchus, now this medium navarchus. I'm getting tired of tearing my tank apart. If my family (and everyone else who looks at the tank) didn't like the puffer and lion so much, I'd probably pull them and do a large angel, wrasse, trigger tank.
Maybe there's aggression hormones in my city water or something. Nonstop weird compatibility issues for me. Like the small blue tang last year (peaceful, right? wrong)...killed a volitans twice its size, almost tore apart all its other bigger neighbors (trigger, maroon clown, puffer, tusk) before it died of Ich. Which killed everyone else.
Zebra eel - Not sure. If I have to chase another eel out of my tank, I may use a sledge hammer to do it. I had to pull my whole tank apart to track down a tessalata and lost my interest in eels. I guess most people who have zebras say they're really docile, and they're not piscivorous by nature, so maybe I'll try...I'm on the fence...
I may try a changing or small adult annularis. My experience with large angels so far has been...as soon as they get settled...they're not OK with any other big fish...and they are bad with puffers. I tried a big annularis, big navarchus, now this medium navarchus. I'm getting tired of tearing my tank apart. If my family (and everyone else who looks at the tank) didn't like the puffer and lion so much, I'd probably pull them and do a large angel, wrasse, trigger tank.
Maybe there's aggression hormones in my city water or something. Nonstop weird compatibility issues for me. Like the small blue tang last year (peaceful, right? wrong)...killed a volitans twice its size, almost tore apart all its other bigger neighbors (trigger, maroon clown, puffer, tusk) before it died of Ich. Which killed everyone else.
Jaime that's a great point. Never considered it, need to research it.
I've found that I am doing 200-300G water changes per month, Nitrates hover between 40 and 20 ppm, Phosphates hover at .1-.2ppm. That is with the Algae Scrubber. Granted I've done a lot unnaturally that has had my bio filter on overdrive (and feed messy eaters very heavily), but I've wanted to get more nitrate reduction online so I can back off on the water changes, and also kick this ridiculous cyano issue.
I figured I'd get all of these measures online, but not at full capacity, as I still want my algae scrubber to pull some heavy algae. Then, maybe dial back media amounts if I didn't see the algae scrubber growth. But, maybe I could still be stripping too much. Do you think I need to worry about it as much if I don't have corals?
The other reason I wanted to get all of these measures online is for (my) perceived, more natural water environment. Feel free to laugh if I have my head up my arse on that. Maybe that is ridiculous? Here is what I mean:
-Algae Scrubber - Replicate benefits of having thriving plant life in the aquatic environment, as per some of the videos/research posted by SantaMonica in his UAS thread on our MASC site. Like having plants in my house for cleaner air I guess.
-Sulfur Reactor - Replicate DSB that naturally occurs in a reef, but at a more elemental level (and so I don't have the aquarium risks of a DSB).
-Biopellets - Replicate nitrate mitigation that otherwise occurs in ocean (deep sea, benthic, etc).
And of course, stop the insane amount of water changing.
I've found that I am doing 200-300G water changes per month, Nitrates hover between 40 and 20 ppm, Phosphates hover at .1-.2ppm. That is with the Algae Scrubber. Granted I've done a lot unnaturally that has had my bio filter on overdrive (and feed messy eaters very heavily), but I've wanted to get more nitrate reduction online so I can back off on the water changes, and also kick this ridiculous cyano issue.
I figured I'd get all of these measures online, but not at full capacity, as I still want my algae scrubber to pull some heavy algae. Then, maybe dial back media amounts if I didn't see the algae scrubber growth. But, maybe I could still be stripping too much. Do you think I need to worry about it as much if I don't have corals?
The other reason I wanted to get all of these measures online is for (my) perceived, more natural water environment. Feel free to laugh if I have my head up my arse on that. Maybe that is ridiculous? Here is what I mean:
-Algae Scrubber - Replicate benefits of having thriving plant life in the aquatic environment, as per some of the videos/research posted by SantaMonica in his UAS thread on our MASC site. Like having plants in my house for cleaner air I guess.
-Sulfur Reactor - Replicate DSB that naturally occurs in a reef, but at a more elemental level (and so I don't have the aquarium risks of a DSB).
-Biopellets - Replicate nitrate mitigation that otherwise occurs in ocean (deep sea, benthic, etc).
And of course, stop the insane amount of water changing.