Tangs with Ich

#21
reeftankulous;201730 said:
Thanks for the advice guys! This morning almost all signs of ich are gone, barely any spots on my tangs. From what I was able to find it may be just a stage in a life cycle of the parasites where they detach from fish and go into multiplying mode on the sand and live rock just to come back 100 times worse. I have been feeding the fish a lot of seaweeds with added garlic extract, hooked up a UV sterilizer (been running it fior a week)and got the biggest cleaner shrimp I could find at aquatic art. May be a combination of these things helped or may be I need to get ready for the worst? Setting up a 55 gal QT any way just to be ready. I read that sometimes you can "feed the fish thru ich" anyone had any success with that? I know that ich will still be in the tank but if the fish are strong enough they can fight it off. I'll keep posting updates... May be someone will find them helpful.
Yes if you do nothing the ich will be there and your fish maybe able to fight it off if they are healthy enough, whats gonna happen though one day a fish is gonna get stressed or suffer an injury and the ich is gonna come back or if you add a new fish the ich could come back. If it was me I would remove all the fish and treat them with hypo and let your tank remain fishless for at least 8 weeks.
 

ValG

Tang
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#23
freedominco;201734 said:
Yes if you do nothing the ich will be there and your fish maybe able to fight it off if they are healthy enough, whats gonna happen though one day a fish is gonna get stressed or suffer an injury and the ich is gonna come back or if you add a new fish the ich could come back. If it was me I would remove all the fish and treat them with hypo and let your tank remain fishless for at least 8 weeks.
So UV will not kill free floating ich? I guess I just need to stick to my plan and hypo to get rid of it completely.
 
#24
reeftankulous;201741 said:
So UV will not kill free floating ich? I guess I just need to stick to my plan and hypo to get rid of it completely.
uv will not work, only 2 proven ways, hypo and copper. I would do the hypo as long as you have a ATO and refractometer.

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Cake_Boss

Blue Whale
M.A.S.C Club Member
#25
freedominco;201810 said:
uv will not work, only 2 proven ways, hypo and copper. I would do the hypo as long as you have a ATO and refractometer.

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UV will kill one stage of the cycle. So yes, it does work...just not very efficient to use it solely
 

reefmaster719

Nurse Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#26
rockys_pride;201836 said:
UV will kill one stage of the cycle. So yes, it does work...just not very efficient to use it solely
+1. Rid ich works great to. Garlic and seaweed will keep your fish healthy also.
 

Dbarnes

Nurse Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#27
freedominco;201810 said:
uv will not work, only 2 proven ways, hypo and copper. I would do the hypo as long as you have a ATO and refractometer.

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I disagree many ppl have had great luck with products such as ich attack and if it is not present for 6-8 weeks then the parasite is no longer active in the tank. In my opinion (shared by many) ich is always present in your system no matter what remedy you use however so long as your fish are healthy it will never become active. Husbandry skills are most important when battling ich.



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#28
Dbarnes;201918 said:
I disagree many ppl have had great luck with products such as ich attack and if it is not present for 6-8 weeks then the parasite is no longer active in the tank. In my opinion (shared by many) ich is always present in your system no matter what remedy you use however so long as your fish are healthy it will never become active. Husbandry skills are most important when battling ich.



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thats fine, we can agree to disagree, but if ich is always present then whats the point of any of the treatments ?

[h=5]Is "Ich" always present in our aquaria?[/h] There is a widely held belief in the marine aquarium hobby that "Ich" is always present in our aquaria and this belief is often repeated on marine bulletin boards. There is much information in the scientific literature that contradicts this belief.
C. irritans is an obligate parasite (Burgess and Matthews, 1994; Dickerson and Dawe, 1995; Yoshinaga and Dickerson, 1994). Obligate means the parasite can not survive without infecting its host, in this case, fish. Theronts have been shown to die if a suitable host is not found within the required time. Yoshinaga and Dickerson (1994) found that few theronts (0.34%) were viable 12.5 hours after excystment and Burgess and Matthews (1994) found that no theronts were viable 18 hours after excystment. Colorni (1985) found that some excysted tomites (=theronts) were observed to be moving weekly after 48 hours. While the life span of the theronts appears variable, it is limited and all will die without finding a suitable host.
If an aquarium has no fish in it, and there are no additions of fish, or anything else that could be carrying trophonts, tomonts, tomites or theronts for a period of 6 weeks or longer, all parasites will have died. An aquarium such as this is an obvious exception to "Ich" always being present.
Many fish collected for marine aquariums will not be carrying "Ich". Incidence of C. irritans in wild fish varies widely and may be geographically related. Some authors have found few infected fish, if any, in the areas they have examined (Puerto Rico: Bunkley-Williams and Williams, 1994; southern California: Wilkie and Gordin, 1969) . Others have found that low levels of infection are not uncommon (e.g. southern Queensland; Diggles and Lester, 1996c). Keeping multiple fish in holding tanks and at aquarium stores increases the chances of a fish carrying "Ich" parasites, but it is still possible to acquire a fish that is not infected with "Ich".
If new fish are quarantined for at least 6 weeks, any parasites on the fish will have gone through a number of life cycles increasing the number of parasites present. In the majority of cases, the increase in parasite numbers will result in full blown infection and fish can be treated to remove the parasites. Hyposalinity has been demonstrated to break the life cycle of "Ich" (Cheung et al. 1979; Colorni, 1985) and fish correctly treated with hyposalinity will be free from "Ich". Any fish that do not show signs of infection after 6 weeks are very unlikely to be carrying any parasites.
If fish that are free from "Ich" (either because they were not originally infected or because they have been treated with hyposalinity) are added to an aquarium that is free from "Ich", the aquarium will stay free from "Ich" and be another exception to "Ich" always being present.
Burgess and Matthews (1994) were attempting to maintain a viable population of C. irritans which could be used in later studies. To maintain the parasite populations, they needed host fish in order for the trophonts to feed and continue the life cycle. Each host fish was only used once in a process of serial transition such that none of the hosts would die or develop an immunity. While the procedure worked very well and enabled them to maintain populations for some time, the viability of the populations decreased with time and none of the 7 isolates they used survived more than 34 cycles, around 10 to 11 months. They suggest this is due to senescence and aging in cell lines is well recognised in Ciliophora.
The presence of aging cell lines in C. irritans suggests that an aquarium that has been running for longer than 12 months without any additions is unlikely to have any surviving "Ich" parasites, yet another exception to "Ich" always being present.
Whilst "Ich" may be present in some aquaria, it is certainly not present in all aquaria. Through careful quarantining and treatment, it is very much possible to establish and maintain an "Ich" free aquarium.



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fiji4118

Tang
M.A.S.C Club Member
#29
freedominco;201810 said:
uv will not work, only 2 proven ways, hypo and copper. I would do the hypo as long as you have a ATO and refractometer.

sent from my HTC evo 4G
Disagree with only 2 ways. Chloroquine Phosphate and many of the quinine drugs work extremely well for crypto. Hydroxychloroquine also reduced the issues with eye problems with prolonged exposure. Unfortunately none of theses are options for a reef tank as they will kill almost everything in the tank so they should only be used in a QT setting. I have read quiet a few articles that go both ways on hypo. Some say it works, some say its iffy at best. It would be nice to guarantee that something will definitely remove crypto from a system but since there isn't a way to "test" your water for the parasite there is no way to be 100% sure that any treatment has worked. I left my reef fallow for 12 weeks, had my fish in QT during that time using CP with no outward signs and as soon as I move my fish back into the DT the hippo had crypto.
 
#30
fiji4118;201982 said:
Disagree with only 2 ways. Chloroquine Phosphate and many of the quinine drugs work extremely well for crypto. Hydroxychloroquine also reduced the issues with eye problems with prolonged exposure. Unfortunately none of theses are options for a reef tank as they will kill almost everything in the tank so they should only be used in a QT setting. I have read quiet a few articles that go both ways on hypo. Some say it works, some say its iffy at best. It would be nice to guarantee that something will definitely remove crypto from a system but since there isn't a way to "test" your water for the parasite there is no way to be 100% sure that any treatment has worked. I left my reef fallow for 12 weeks, had my fish in QT during that time using CP with no outward signs and as soon as I move my fish back into the DT the hippo had crypto.
this is not something I thought up on my own, I had a bad case of ich followed the instructions here: http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html (that has scientific backing) and had never had a sign of ich in over 2 years. everytime I hear about people using some other method they always have the ich come back.
 
#31
fiji4118;201982 said:
Disagree with only 2 ways. Chloroquine Phosphate and many of the quinine drugs work extremely well for crypto. Hydroxychloroquine also reduced the issues with eye problems with prolonged exposure. Unfortunately none of theses are options for a reef tank as they will kill almost everything in the tank so they should only be used in a QT setting. I have read quiet a few articles that go both ways on hypo. Some say it works, some say its iffy at best. It would be nice to guarantee that something will definitely remove crypto from a system but since there isn't a way to "test" your water for the parasite there is no way to be 100% sure that any treatment has worked. I left my reef fallow for 12 weeks, had my fish in QT during that time using CP with no outward signs and as soon as I move my fish back into the DT the hippo had crypto.
while your tank was fishless what did you use to treat the fish?
 

fiji4118

Tang
M.A.S.C Club Member
#32
Fish were treated with CP. It is a human malaria drug that is proven to be an effective cross parasite treatment.

The issue I have with using hypo is that most of the experts (Bob Fenner and others) feel that it doesn't actually do anything.
 
#33
fiji4118;201987 said:
Fish were treated with CP. It is a human malaria drug that is proven to be an effective cross parasite treatment.

The issue I have with using hypo is that most of the experts (Bob Fenner and others) feel that it doesn't actually do anything.
Well like I have told many we can agree to disagree but I used hypo ich is gone I have treated other fish with hypo and ich is gone too, you used CP and still had the ich not because it was still in the fishless tank but never eradicated from the fish. You throw out 1 name of an expert who feels hypo does not work but I could throw out names of scientist who says it does.
 

fiji4118

Tang
M.A.S.C Club Member
#34
Hey, whatever works for you. WWW has quite a section on hypo not working. Just trying to provide additional information. If hypo was the end all for killing crypto then I would suspect that every expert/website/store would be on the bandwagon and nothing else would ever be offered as a solution for it's removal.

Sorry, I was not trying to hijack this thread, I was only offering additional options for treating crypto.
 
#35
fiji4118;201991 said:
Hey, whatever works for you. WWW has quite a section on hypo not working. Just trying to provide additional information. If hypo was the end all for killing crypto then I would suspect that every expert/website/store would be on the bandwagon and nothing else would ever be offered as a solution for it's removal.

Sorry, I was not trying to hijack this thread, I was only offering additional options for treating crypto.
yep, the internet is full of lots of stories about lots of things. seems like none of the methods has the full backing of everyone. hypo is hard to do properly many skip the ato part of it so salinity is unstable, defeating the purpose. I too was only offering what has worked for me in the past. YMMV

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#36
Lol it's funny freedom your still on your soap box about ich. I personally think people should have to post a current FTS before giving advice so people know who to take serious because of experience or who's just reading about other peoples exsperinses online. My .02
 
#37
GrassHoppa;202035 said:
Lol it's funny freedom your still on your soap box about ich. I personally think people should have to post a current FTS before giving advice so people know who to take serious because of experience or who's just reading about other peoples exsperinses online. My .02
there you go again adam about how nice your tank is........ your so cool, are you saying I don't even have a tank?

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#39


there you go adam sorry it from a few months back, I have ppl over all the time complimenting me on my tank, or is that just a story I read fool

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