The build thread: 430gal. display

[Ummfish]

I think it's probably a trade-off. Raw always leaves open the possibility you might get some nasty bacteria. Cooked means that you destroy the bacteria, but you also destroy some of the enzymes that make it nutritious. From what I've heard, always use raw when you feed juvenile fish or inverts, because some of the enzymes that get destroyed are necessary for growth.

Actually, the guys at the fish counter always get really interested when I tell them what I'm using the food for and sometimes even give it to me for free when I'm not getting too much.

 

[dtech]

I have always used raw myself too. I hadn't heard of anybody using cooked but I had read a bit of questioning on it. I get the funny look then a ton of curious questions from the seafood counter every time I get raw seafood. I am usually only getting like 1 shrimp, 1 clam , 1 scallop etc. They can't figure out why I only want 1. lol. After explaining that I'm cutting it up for fish they start in with the questions, then then they get really interested when they find out that it;s for saltwater and my reef.

 

[Ummfish]

So, no new photos yet, but a quick update. I spent some time today filling up the rest of the basement tanks with filtered water. Today, I filled:

2 x water storage tanks = 350 gals.
5 x 90 gals. = 450 gals.
2 x 120 gals. = 240 gals.
Half of the 180 gals. sump = 90 gals.

Total = 1,130 gals. of filtered water today, with no wasted water.

I love the Kold Ster-il unit!

I haven't salted them yet because I'm trying to work out some weird flow issues through these tanks. Probably tomorrow....

 

[jasonh]

Andy, that's a lot of water, just in the basement.

So you like that hold ster-il unit, eh? How does it compare to RO/DI? Does it put out 0 TDS? For only $335, that's not too bad, seeing as a good RO/DI will run $200 minimum....

 

[Ummfish]

I like the unit. TDS doesn't work as a measure of the water from a Kold Ster-il because these units do not remove all of the solids from the water. They leave all of the calcium and alkalinity in place, so you don't have to add as much back in. Plus, no wasted water....

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Here are some pictures of the fishroom.

My deep sand bed tank is not deep sand enough yet. All of the tanks are now salt water, though I'm still adjusting the salinity....

The storage tanks are both filled with fresh, filtered water right now, which is a good thing because the nipple broke off the water filter--spraying down the entire room--and I haven't fixed it yet.

Kalkwasser stirrer and calcium reactor.

The auto-topoff is plumbed to the freshwater reservoir by way of the kalkwasser doser.

The tank that's been running a while has a bunch of sponge filters running so I can have some filtration in the other 90s while they are QT tanks.

The biological processes are going in the 90. That's the bacteria trying to break down the shrimp.

Thanks!

 

[jasonh]

I like the unit. TDS doesn't work as a measure of the water from a Kold Ster-il because these units do not remove all of the solids from the water. They leave all of the calcium and alkalinity in place, so you don't have to add as much back in. Plus, no wasted water....

Good to know. The unit looks pretty promising.

 

[Ummfish]

Apparently, there's a thread on the RC chemistry forum with some bad press for these guys. I'd check it out, but I've never had problems....

Sorry I've been pretty unavailable. I had a couple of projects come back to me in the last couple weeks on a rush to get to press with thousands of corrections. Did I mention that they were on a rush? Sigh. On top of that, the movers were back yesterday and we had a house guest for about a week. I love unpacking boxes. Really.

As far as the tank goes, we're still trying to get the rockwork in the display worked out. It looks really good and dramatic right now, but it's just too darn big. There's no room for corals now, much less when they start growing out. So, I'm going to go mark up sections that I want him to cut out and then he's going to re-mud. Sigh.

Just ran water checks on the tanks in the fishroom. The 90 that's by itself is still showing a little ammonia and no nitrates, so it's not ready yet. The bacteria have totally decimated the shrimp already and I'm supplementing with plain old fish food now. The rest of the system hasn't even really started it's cycle yet. There's just so much water volume. I think I have a flat of old frozen food in the freezer. I'm just going to dump the whole thing in.

There's the story. I'm off to pencil up some rockwork....

 

[jasonh]

You could always just dump in some straight ammonia (no surfactants, etc) till the levels rise.

Back when I was doing planted tanks some people were advocating using ammonia to get the cycle kicked off - "fishless cycle" I think they called it. I think you were supposed to add small amounts each day or two till it showed 0.5 on the test, then add a certain amount each day till you see it start to fall off and the nitrite rise.

As for the unit, I'll have to see if I can find that thread. How long have you been using yours? I was thinking I would at least get one for drinking water, as I'm inclined to believe what they say on there about drinking RO water not being that great for you as it lacks calcium and whatnot. Granted, I could probably get away with just a single under-sink filter for $30 for drinking water....

 

[jasonh]

Found this on the plantedtank where I used to hang out. Might give some insight into the process. I've never heard of doing this for SW tanks though, but I honestly don't see why it wouldn't work. Seems like this would be a good way to get a BIG system going quickly.

Also keep in mind that you get what you put into it. Ammonia should produce faster results. You get an instant spike, and then keep levels high. As for frequency of measurements, once again you get what you put into it. You could just start at 5ppm and add about 1ppm a day, test after a week, and then test every few days after that. Once you see it drop to about 1ppm or so, that's when you start your 5ppm dosing with testing 24 hours later.

Homer says 1ml per 5g, which is funny because I do 8ml per 40g (do that math!). This gave me 5ppm, which is usually the recommended target. This was with a 10% ammonia solution, which I think is typical of most ammonia products out there (and btw, 10% is still *very* strong. Keep your nose far away if you value your sinuses).

Lastly, exact measurements are not required. If you end with 2ppm or 8ppm, it won't make a difference. In fact I bet your tank would cycle just as fast at 1ppm. You just need to make sure you start spiking higher once it goes to 0ppm within 24 hours so you can reach the goal of 5ppm in 24 hours.

 

[Ummfish]

Cool, thanks Jason. I have a whole flat of old Formula One cubes in there now. So that's about 40 cubes, yeah? That should eventually get me going. Actually, best use of the Formula One I've found. I'm not fond of the gelatin keeping everything stuck together.

I've been using the Kold Ster-il for around two years now. Granted, most of the time was with roughly a fish-only tank (after the corals died), but I do have an Acan colony that's survived from my old tank.

 

[jasonh]

Actually, best use of the Formula One I've found.

Heh, so true.

Used it for a while and couldn't wait to be done with it. If you shake it up and mash it enough to not be in a big glob, the pieces are so tiny it's completely pointless. Plus, I have a funny feeling it was contributing to my phosphate problem...

I used the Laguna Farms stuff in Phoenix, but I haven't found it for sale here. Using the Rod's Reef food, and it's very comparable to the Laguna, I like it.

 

[Ummfish]

I'm a big fan of Rod's Food, too. In fact, I have a couple of project fish that the LFS is being kind enough to hold for me until I can get a tank cycled. I'm going over there three times a day to give them special feedings (sigh ... hurry, cycle). I can say that even just a little of Rod's Food works pretty darn well as an appetite stimulant and gets these fish to hit their other foods with more gusto. It's pretty cool--these are fish that supposedly average about a week in captivity and I've just passed the month mark with them. The female got paper thin before we had a feeding breakthrough. She now gaining weight. The male was initially a poor eater, but he now looks better than he did before he came in.

 

[jasonh]

Wow, that's cool. What kind of fish are they?

I've never tried it, but they have that bio-spira stuff for marine too.. Maybe that would help kick up your cycle. That or a bunch of cured LR would probably help - don't remember if you said you had any in the system. (I'm a fan of just using uncured LR to start the cycle and build up the bacteria. Or, toss in cured LR and a piece of shrimp or food or whatever.)

 

[Ummfish]

All my live rock at the moment has a huge Aiptasia bloom going. That said, I put some in the isolated 90 gal. My thought is to eventually put in a non-reef safe butterfly that'll tear through the Aiptasia and maybe keep me from turning the rock into base rock. Maybe I can save some of the life that way. If it doesn't really work, I can still move the fish and bleach the tank.

I did buy some rock from a buddy but he lives pretty far out of town and I haven't had a day yet that I could make the trip. I guess it's probably time, though.

I do have a big bunch of gracillaria in one of the tanks, hoping that would help....

Anyway, about the fish....

I have to admit it, I'm trying a pair of harlequin filefish. I know, I know. But, I've heard reports (I've promised not to say where at this point) of success--and lots of success--with this species. After watching these guys, I don't really believe that they are obligate corallivores. I personally think that they're just such bad feeders that they don't have a whole lot of choice in the wild.

So, they tend to average about a week in captivity. I'm up to day 32, which is a victory of sorts if I can keep it going. The male went on a hunger strike early but has rebounded and now looks better than the day he came in. The female went on a huge hunger strike on me after the male and got paper thin. I thought she was certainly gone. I got in some live mysis about that time and added some to the tank. The female chased them! I don't think she got any, but ever since then she's been eating. Not yet as robustly as the male, but she's gaining weight. I can't tell if she's looking better than when I got her yet, but she's not too far off.

They are currently on a diet of entirely frozen small foods. I've not seen them picking at corals in weeks, though there are some in the tank if they want them.

So, photos:

Female, day 1:

Female, today:

She's lost most of the energy reserves along her spine (mmmm, back fat) but she's finally back to having a little belly and she's put some of the back fat back on.

Male, day 1:

Male, today (showing his belly):

BTW, the photos today were before their first feeding and Sundays are hard. The LFS doesn't open 'til 12:00, so they'd just been 18 hours without me adding food.

So, now that I'm out of the filefish closet....

 

[Ummfish]

Oh and BTW, they are hard fish to keep. I mean, really hard. Hardest I've ever tried. Lots of banging my head against the wall. Lots of overfeeding the tank. And lots of water changes.

 

[Clown-N-Around]

Cool, so are you hoping to breed the pair someday? If you take the approach of dedication to a difficult species, that is the way to go. It is sad when someone buys a difficult species and is not willing to dedicate the time to make it into a success story. Best of luck. Keep us posted!

 

[Ummfish]

Well, yeah, that's the ultimate goal. In fact, producing more fish/corals/other inverts than I've removed from the ocean is pretty much constantly what I want to achieve. It'd be nice if I could produce a lot more than I remove--that would be "success"--but I believe that trying is the huge deal.

 

[LeStat2061]

Well, yeah, that's the ultimate goal. In fact, producing more fish/corals/other inverts than I've removed from the ocean is pretty much constantly what I want to achieve. It'd be nice if I could produce a lot more than I remove--that would be "success"--but I believe that trying is the huge deal.

I have TO admire that thinking. If things get back On track for me i will be heading that route do not have the Beautiful Facility you have though.

 

[Ummfish]

I don't think it's all about beauty. I've managed to produce more Banggais than I've removed at this point--even if only barely, though I hope there'll be more in the future--and I did that in a couple of Rubbermaid bins. The Banggais don't seem to care much what it looks like.

BTW, the juveniles seem to be pairing up. I'm hoping to get them into new homes soon, though, so that may throw them off-track a bit.

 

[Ummfish]

Did I ever show you all photos of the rockwork?

This is the side closest to the exterior wall. Nice form, but just too big. If the goal was to show off the rocks it would be great, but that's not really what I want.

This is the small leg of the L, which I think looks great.

In other news, nitrites are finally rearing their ugly heads in the single 90. The rest of the system hasn't even had an ammonia spike yet, despite a shrimp and a whole flat of Formula One. I put two more large shrimp in there this morning.

And, I finally got more done on the plumbing on the 55 gal. drum:

I'm not sure I believe too strongly in those zip ties. I have some industrial zips that I think I can work in there. I think they could probably hold up a car.