hope if you own Tunze's you dont like flow!

[djkms]

I just think its easy for a HUMAN (sorry, I wont use American anymore since I dont want Don shipping me off to Pakistan) to place blame and not take responsibility.

I am not arguing the fact that Tunze F'd up. I am not arguing the fact that they should make right with their costumers.

What I am saying is that 95% of the customers who own Tunze products are knowledgeable enough reefers to know if their corals are getting enough flow. Tunze is not responsible for your reef YOU are.

Its like me getting mad because my Apex crapping out on me. I had to send it back to them and I was swearing Neptune up and down because the apex controls my whole reef. Sure if I lost livestock with my Neptune out I would probably be blaming Neptune as well but from a logical standpoint it is me who is ultimately responsible for my reef, not Neptune. I could be PO'd at Live Aquaria for giving me a coral with Dictoya on it which I am still fighting to this day but guess what, it my responsibility, period.

 

[Cake_Boss]

Why does there have to be a problem with America? Obesity maybe, the value of the dollar yes. Why do citizens turn on other citizens? This has nothing to do with Tunze.

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[spstimie]

http://www.sontek.com/10mhzadv.php

"The SonTek/YSI 10-MHz ADV (Acoustic Doppler Velocimeter) is a proven, accurate solution for high-precision, 3-axis (3D), velocity measurements in a wide variety of settings from the laboratory to the ocean. ADV performance has been shown to compare favorably with laser Doppler systems costing ten times as much. In addition, the ADV is extremely simple to set up and use. Most users are taking high quality data within minutes of receiving the system."

This seems like a fairly proven piece of equipment they are using. And YSI specializes in laboratory and field equipment for water testing. That is what they do.

I love this quote...
“A comprehensive comparison of the pumps will be done, we will test everything, not just flow at the pump, but flow where it matters at the corals, at your reef. We will test decibels, flow pattern, flow at distance, you name it.”

What, the water is going to pick up speed further away from the pump? That seems unlikely given the nature of physics. It does encourage me that they will not have this issue again. And that's about it.

 

[djkms]

Mike cmon now, you know dang well if your corals are getting too much/little flow. All you gotta do is look at the polyps and see how they are reacting. If you dont know then how are you knowing how to place corals in your tank?

Honestly - even now I have no clue what the rated GPH is for my MP40's nor do I care. I just know that I researched powerheads, read good reviews and saw what others were putting in their 125's.

Sorry - not trying to attack anyone Mike, all in good fun for me as well, if I offended, sorry

Love you all, except Don, he kinda creeps me out with his Van and avatar

 

[spstimie]

I just think its easy for a HUMAN (sorry, I wont use American anymore since I dont want Don shipping me off to Pakistan) to place blame and not take responsibility.

I am not arguing the fact that Tunze F'd up. I am not arguing the fact that they should make right with their costumers.

What I am saying is that 95% of the customers who own Tunze products are knowledgeable enough reefers to know if their corals are getting enough flow. Tunze is not responsible for your reef YOU are.

Its like me getting mad because my Apex crapping out on me. I had to send it back to them and I was swearing Neptune up and down because the apex controls my whole reef. Sure if I lost livestock with my Neptune out I would probably be blaming Neptune as well but from a logical standpoint it is me who is ultimately responsible for my reef, not Neptune. I could be PO'd at Live Aquaria for giving me a coral with Dictoya on it which I am still fighting to this day but guess what, it my responsibility, period.

Ok, but to your point. Neptune Systems did not guarantee "Never Fails" and they did warranty it. And Liveaqauria did not guarantee "No Parasites or Nuisance Algae". However Tunze did print on the box "7900GPH" and it doesn't do that. That is where the difference lies. How about if Neptune said "Monitors Temperature" and the Apex didn't do that. Now you want your money back!

 

[djkms]

Ok, but to your point. Neptune Systems did not guarantee "Never Fails" and they did warranty it. And Liveaqauria did not guarantee "No Parasites or Nuisance Algae". However Tunze did print on the box "7900GPH" and it doesn't do that. That is where the difference lies. How about if Neptune said "Monitors Temperature" and the Apex didn't do that. Now you want your money back!

Crap your so right, lets just sue them bastages, now that is the American way!!!

 

[Cake_Boss]

Crap your so right, lets just sue them bastages, now that is the American way!!!

Or they can fix it

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[djkms]

Just for you Jamie LMAO!!

Ok Im done, you guys have fun

 

[spstimie]

figure_1.jpg

Figure 1. Schematic of simple turbulent jet [1]

The Tests were not just taken at the pump.

 

[mdrumm]

"Mike cmon now, you know dang well if your corals are getting too much/little flow. All you gotta do is look at the polyps and see how they are reacting. If you dont know then how are you knowing how to place corals in your tank?"

True, but I am a smart reefer who uses EcoTech! Those less smart tunze folks might not be able to

 

[Cake_Boss]

Just for you Jamie LMAO!!

Ok Im done, you guys have fun

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[spstimie]

Oh Wait, Better Example...

If you buy a crib for your baby that is supposed to be safe, but the slide down side malfunctions and kills them. Is that the manufacturers fault or the parents? These did just get banned for a reason.

 

[djkms]

"Mike cmon now, you know dang well if your corals are getting too much/little flow. All you gotta do is look at the polyps and see how they are reacting. If you dont know then how are you knowing how to place corals in your tank?"

True, but I am a smart reefer who uses EcoTech! Those less smart tunze folks might not be able to

LOL - thanks for the laugh Mike, you seriously brought tears to my eyes from laughing. I owe you a beer!

 

[mikejrice]

This seems like a fairly proven piece of equipment they are using. And YSI specializes in laboratory and field equipment for water testing. That is what they do.

I didn't mean that the specific equipment used was flawed. It's the fact that they used experimental methods that have not been checked against anything else, and it's being accepted as fact days after it was published. It would seem to be that it was not proven valid for most people by factual evidence but instead by it being sensational enough to create a buzz.

I love this quote...
“A comprehensive comparison of the pumps will be done, we will test everything, not just flow at the pump, but flow where it matters at the corals, at your reef. We will test decibels, flow pattern, flow at distance, you name it.”

What, the water is going to pick up speed further away from the pump? That seems unlikely given the nature of physics.

That does seem unlikely, but this is about volume per/hour not velocity. It is possible that as you move away from a pump it could be moving higher volume do to induction.

 

[mdrumm]

Mike...Tunze ADMITTED that there pumps are off. The great Tunze. The do no wrong tunze that misstated their pumps by 50% but we still love them. So given the fact that Tunze acknowledged the results as accurate, how can we doubt them. They are German, remember!

 

[mikejrice]

True, but I am a smart reefer who uses EcoTech! Those less smart tunze folks might not be able to

I think they should just add some fine print to the packaging that says, "must be at least 50% smarter than this pump to figure out you're getting 50% of what you paid for."

lol I can't get enough of the 50% jokes! I'm on the side of proper scientific process, but 50%??? Seriously?

I hope it's proven wrong for my own sanity.

 

[spstimie]

I didn't mean that the specific equipment used was flawed. It's the fact that they used experimental methods that have not been checked against anything else, and it's being accepted as fact days after it was published. It would seem to be that it was not proven valid for most people by factual evidence but instead by it being sensational enough to create a buzz.



That does seem unlikely, but this is about volume per/hour not velocity. It is possible that as you move away from a pump it could be moving higher volume do to induction.

I think the term Experimental was tagged to the front, to prevent them from being Sued. If I "Experiment" with 10 brands of strike anywhere matches and one brand does not strike on the cement sidewalk. Does that mean the results are not conclusive that it is not a strike anywhere match. If I publish those results, that match manufacturer has a case that I may hurt their business reputation. Or it could just be referring to this being an experiment. Either way the equipment and standards used are widely accepted when checking water flow.

The experiment did measure at different distances.
"For this experiment, a test setup needed to be developed that would accurately measure the velocity of water flow over a series of points across the flow profile. To accomplish this task, a Sontek 10-MHz Acoustic Doppler Velocimeter was selected for its ability to measure open-channel flow in a volume of water as small as 0.25 cc. The ADV selected also had the capability of measuring 3-Dimensional flow. Table 2 is taken from Sontek's literature for the 10 MHz ADV used."

 

[mikejrice]

Mike...Tunze ADMITTED that there pumps are off.

I'm going to stick my neck out there and go lawyer on you Mike. What they actually said is that they duplicated the tests and got the same result. They still left room to prove an error in the test method.

 

[dv3]

Love you all, except Don, he kinda creeps me out with his Van and avatar

i get that alot for some reason ....hmmm:idea:

 

[mikejrice]

I think the term Experimental was tagged to the front, to prevent them from being Sued.

Experimental is a very clear term in academic circles which is where Sanjay works. He labeled the test as experimental because it had never been tried before. Being sued had nothing to do with it.

If I "Experiment" with 10 brands of strike anywhere matches and one brand does not strike on the cement sidewalk. Does that mean the results are not conclusive that it is not a strike anywhere match.

That's not conclusive at all because there is no definition behind it. If you are defining a strike anywhere match as a match that can strike anywhere, than there is no such thing as a strike anywhere match because no match will strike under water. This is why the, very well written paper than was published is so long. scientific method is far more complicated than a few sentences, and proving it to be fact is near impossible. Look up how long Einstein fought the scientific community before the theory of relativity was accepted. That's part of science. You have to come under fire from everyone with a gun and when they all fail, it will be accepted.

I would be willing to bet you Sanjay himself, as a scientist, does not accept the study as the last word on the matter, and already has more experiments in mind.